How To! with Charles Duhigg - How to Bounce Back From Injury

0:00Tom MorrisonI was going around different professionals and being told a new muscle every other month and it was like, something's not right here. Their prediction, I would need a full reconstruction on each knee by the time I'm 40. I don't look at strength now as like massive weights that you can lift. I look at strength as more of a, can I put your joints in any position and do you have some level of strength there? Yes, please tell me how to make this fun again.

0:29Charles DuhiggHello and welcome to how to I used to think of strength as the ability to lift heavy things Maybe while grunting belts were sometimes involved, but now I or society actually has come to think of strength as Flexibility, the ability to move, to hold your body up. And I also think that this analogy probably relates to society as a whole or what it means to be a strong man, not to take the burden, but to be flexible enough to understand what burdens everyone else is taking. But there is a problem. When you are injured, you get in the way of whatever conceptions of strength or even functionality that you may have.

1:10Charles DuhiggAnd I am a bit of an injured person, knees, dislocations, tendons, ligaments. I'm having a little problem with my peroneal nerve as we speak, but enough about me. Let us meet a truly injured and, looking to be on the road, to recovery, how to guest. Hi, I'm Jamie, the injured person. And I'm just looking to move better and feel better and be able to trust my body and be a better person because of it.

1:40Speaker 2Hello, Jamie. What made you the injured person? Because we think of you. I'm sure your friends and family think of you as so much more. Yes. That is very fair. It's been happening since second grade. Come to find out just the way my knees were structured. My kneecap is really tiny. All my ligaments were loose. And the bowl where kneecap sits is really shallow. So my knees would sublex, which is dislocating and popping right back in.

2:08Speaker 2since second grade on. And finally, I had knee surgery in high school on my right knee first in sophomore year and then senior year in my left knee. They've been way better since then. However, now I'm more responsible about making sure the amount of muscle in my knees is maintained so they stay protected and safe. And I have dropped the ball on that and re-entered them a couple times and

2:38Charles DuhiggI'm just frustrated with that constant pattern, and I want to change it. Yeah, so let me tell you, I can relate playing football in, it was actually a junior high school, as they called it then, boom, got clipped to the side by Fred Kerber. Fred, if you're listening, I don't blame you. I don't even know if he knows that he did it. The knee was outside the socket for a long time, tore everything in the knee, and then the rehab was, you gotta go and you gotta build up your quads. You gotta become a quadsilla, so as a 14 year old 15 year old I was doing a lot of leg raises and boom it happened again playing baseball and boom it happened again playing bye-bye birdie in a musical a lot of twisting Elvis type moves until I finally had a surgery which they don't do anymore so let me tell you Jamie I can relate I'm with you now you had a slightly different problem when your knees would sub blocks and pop back in mine didn't pop in was it extremely painful? Yes Yeah

3:36Speaker 2Yes, extremely painful and still so unstable. And I think that's the other part of it that I don't hear people talk about a lot is the mental part where you might physically rebuild your knees, but mentally, you don't trust them anymore. Yeah. So how did that affect your life or things that you wouldn't do? Oh, my gosh. Well, before the surgery, it was going upstairs was scary, sitting down, getting on.

4:05Speaker 2down and up off the floor, anything like that. I would have to be super careful walking outside on uneven ground. And since the surgeries, it was amazing. I studied abroad in Costa Rica. I hiked up volcanoes. I felt like I had a new lease on life and I did everything. Yeah.

4:29Charles DuhiggDid you go from thinking of yourself as a clumsy person to a non-clumsy person? A little bit. Definitely a little more graceful. It was just more able. Like I felt like I could participate with people and be with people. Right. And so how long a period was that where you were confident in your knees and your body? That was probably a good like three years. And then it started to go downhill because I wasn't maintaining my knees as well.

4:57Speaker 2and I was doing a lot of school and a lot of work. So I was walking a lot but I did not have great footwear for it and I wasn't supporting my feet or my ankles or my knees correctly and that's when the little injuries and rehab and little injuries and rehab started.

5:17Charles DuhiggOkay, so for three years was good, then you were doing a lot of walking, not doing a lot of maintenance. So where are you in terms of surgeries? You mentioned a couple in high school, have you had to or elected to have surgery since then? No, and I hope to never have surgery again. After my surgeries in high school, they told me their prediction because of the state of my cartilage and my knees, I would need surgery a full knee.

5:46Speaker 2reconstruction on each knee by the time I'm 40. And my goal is to not do that. I don't ever want surgery again. I want to keep them good. So I've just been doing a lot of physical therapy and then working out and strengthening since then. How far south of 40 are you? I'll turn 30 next month.

6:11Charles DuhiggYeah, you do the math. I would never. I would never. You never do math in front of a lady, they tell me. So do you think right now it's more of a psychological or motivational challenge than it is a physical challenge to get yourself back in the shape where you're more confident and feel that you will be able to avoid this surgery? Yes, absolutely. I think over the last two years, I've worked really hard on changing my mindset, so I'm not

6:41Speaker 2the victim all the time and oh I'm injured so I can't that's my excuse I don't want to be that way and I have worked really hard to fix that but the fear is still there I am when I watch people do certain movements and I think that's part of the reason I fell off the wagon is I got to that point where my knees were doing awesome I was doing stuff I'd never I hadn't done since college or right after the surgeries but I let my workouts get really boring and stay with the same exercises and I wasn't pushing myself. And then of course life and work got in the way and that became my new priority. And I think my mindset just swapped again and I wasn't focusing on my knees. I am picking up there's a lot of self-blame and there's a

7:35Charles Duhiggportion of that, which could be on a self-assessment. And I don't want to get into, I don't want to get in the way of that. But I don't know, it also seems like this could spiral where you say to yourself, I'm to blame. I can't get myself out of this. On the other hand, you are identifying the problem that your workouts are boring. So maybe by implication, are you suggesting a solution? Yes. Please tell me how to make this fun again.

8:04Charles DuhiggI do feel some self-blame and don't want to. Sorry. No, it's okay. And I also know that you talked about being a mom and that was very important in why you wanted to do this, not just for yourself, which would be justified enough. Yeah. Sorry, one moment. No, it's okay. I want to become a mom and part of what scares me is...

8:33Speaker 4My mom doesn't have any knee issues, but when she was pregnant, she dislocated her knee just because of how loose everything gets once you get close to the time. And so that does scare me. And I just, like every parent, you want to be able to run with your kids and play with your kids and do everything and not, I don't want to go through any surgery and be on the couch and relearning how to walk for six months again.

9:01Charles Duhiggwatching like maybe grow up. And I think of being a little dramatic because I'm scared about it. Everything will be fine and you need to trust in God. But I can also do everything I can to prevent that. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's those old sayings about, you know, God doesn't give you challenges. You can't handle. But maybe the way of handling them is a lot of squats for the quad. I don't know. It could be all in God's.

9:30Charles Duhigggreat plan to have you have massive thighs. Again, I'm not sure. I'm not a theologian, but I will tell you this. We have waiting in the wing, someone who's a little like the archangel, Zadkiel, who is the angel of forgiveness and mercy, but also someone who intervenes with the truly desperate people he is about to flutter by when we return with how to. We're back with how to. We've been talking to Jamie.

10:10Charles DuhiggShe, I thought I had some knee problems. She has a knee journey. She had tiny little patellas. I know. You think they're cute. You think it's the Western ideal of beauty, but no, they're not really functional. And she's had a number of a couple of knee surgeries, some good times with the knees, some bad times with the knees. And now she's put her finger on the issue of, she just needs to rehab with dedication, but not make it suck. Here to not make it suck is,

10:37Tom Morrisonour deliverance. I'm Tom Morrison, so I teach people how to get strong and flexible or flung and sexable as I like to call it. So we break movements down and teach people where to start so they can get stronger and get pain free in the safest way possible. Tom, hello. Tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do for a living besides, as I've been watching, making videos online where you pretend you're Marty McFly going back to the future.

11:04Tom MorrisonYes, we do like to have a bit of fun with our advertising. Essentially, I help people to get pain free so that they can get back to doing the things that they love. So in my history, I basically hurt every joint and I thought there was something wrong with me. I was severely inflexible and I hurt my knee, hurt my shoulder and injured my back really badly. I actually walked with a limp for about a year and my knee was just constantly swollen until I got that out. And the weirdest thing for me was that The pain didn't go away after the surgery. The swelling went away, but the pain was still there. And it wasn't actually until I fixed my hip mobility and my foot strength and ankle flexibility that the pain actually went away. So that's definitely something that I would want to look at with you is, like, how flexible are your hips? And if your hips are, like, if they are flexible, how flexible would you say your hips would be? Like, before you were having any issues or after the surgeries, like, do you find it easy to touch your toes with your legs straight and squat deep?

12:02Speaker 2Definitely easy to touch my toes, but when it gets into squatting or any, what's that yoga pose? Everyone tries to do where your feet are flat, but you squat all the way to the ground. My hips do not do that.

12:18Tom MorrisonOkay, awesome. Good. So there's a bit of limitation with the hips then as well, which is a really good sign. And the thing that I'm most positive about here is that after the surgery, you did have that spell where things did feel good. And you notice that you stop doing stuff as often. And that's when things started to play up again. So that's a fantastic sign that you can get back to that stage. And through learning, you're going to be able to figure out any little gaps that you may have had previously to get yourself feeling even stronger. And the great thing is now as well, me is that you have a goal to work towards. I often find that if you had to just do something for yourself, you kind of can put yourself on the back burner. And, you know, it doesn't, I don't matter that much. But if you're thinking towards the future, like the only reason I rehab myself from my back injuries is that my wife was pregnant at the time and we were expecting our first child. So that was the reason.

13:09Tom Morrisonthrough putting myself through the pain to get better. So for you, you now have that goal of like, right, this is why I need to do it. And that's something that can really help to encourage you to do things daily. The first thing that you want to start to look at is getting back to your overall training. But the thing that's going to help you the most initially, and to give you confidence as well, is little bits at home that I can see stirs there behind you.

13:32Tom MorrisonStairs are fantastic. So rather than jumping straight into full lunges and full squats again, you actually want to just start with your leg up on the stairs and just start getting moving the knees and actually wiggling them and putting them into little strange positions as well. That's going to help to start build up everything around the knees. So you want to have good form in your training exercises.

13:53Charles DuhiggBut your mobility work, you actually want to start to add in a little bit of that weirdness to fill in those gaps. So at this point in the conversation, you may be asking, as I was, can Jamie do it? Are Tom's methods suited for her? But most importantly, stirs. Tom was looking at Jamie's background because they were connected on video for our chat. And he was mentioning these stirs. Huh? So like a good trainer, I had Tom break it down and concentrate on form. Stairs. Yes, stairs. OK, OK, listen.

14:22Charles DuhiggI mean, I'm not good at these pronunciations. Or maybe Tom is good and we're bad with the sturs and stares. I say strength, have you noticed that? Instead of strength, I think there's supposed to be a G in there. So I then pivoted and asked Tom to tell us about his strength journey.

14:39Tom MorrisonI have a condition called ankylosing spondylitis which is inflammatory arthritis and growing up I was always ridiculously stiff so I couldn't sit on the floor with my legs crossed so I couldn't sit cross-legged at all so my right hip mobility was absolutely awful. My right knee actually turns inwards to face my left knee so my hip is actually was severely internally rotated like all of the time and then when I started trying to train I was just a walking injury. I was like, what is going on? I'm doing the same as everybody else, but I keep getting hurt. I had hurt my shoulder, hurt my knee, hurt my back multiple times. I was always hurting my neck, and it was purely because I hadn't built the foundational mobility that I needed to do everything I wanted to do. Now, when I got through all of that and fixed my flexibility, like...

15:27Charles Duhiggit changed my life, stronger than I ever was before, had more energy and everything. But you had to invent that program or were there some programs and ideas out there for improving flexibility? For me, I have a mix of

15:40Tom Morrisontraditional martial arts techniques. I also take some things from Pilates, some things from yoga. And then I combine traditional strength training on top of that as well. So ultimately, Jamie, like we really want to get you to a point that you're actually starting to use weight for your legs and doing really like deep range of motion stuff for the knees. But we need to make sure that we started off just body weight stuff first, slow, controlled tempos. Then we want to also start to build in some kind of jumping and rebound.

16:10Tom Morrisonas well to the lightest level so like I'm talking starting off jumping without even leaving the ground like literally just calf raise and let yourself just drop back down to start off the trickiest thing is because you've been strong in the past whenever you start training again you can accidentally sometimes do too much too soon and then you have a setback so it's almost like putting the handbrake on temporarily to let the joints build up the tolerance again and getting some consistency going without a setback and then you can really start to build from there. So a lot of the things you're experiencing are similar to someone that's hypermobile, someone that has too much flexibility and their ligaments are very lax. So you basically want to take that same approach, building the stability throughout the full range and making sure you're working your hips from all angles, making sure you're strengthening your feet and that all carries into protecting the knees.

16:58Charles DuhiggYes. I want to engage that, but I have to go back to one other question. It's just fascinating to me that you did know martial arts and there must have been some conception of how to help with flexibility. But did you find at the beginning, Tom, when you were developing your methods, there was a conceptual deficit among the people who were giving advice? Or is it more the case that, look, this worked for me and it might work for you?

17:25Charles DuhiggI'm asking you, when you look at the flexibility industry, the state of it pre-Tom Morrison, what would your critiques have been? I find a lot of people would tramble him individual muscles.

17:36Tom Morrisonand say, you know, say, Jamie, it's like, oh, your knees keep hurting. Oh, it's because you've got tight quads. Then you need to stretch your quads or, you know, or your hamstrings are weak. All things like that. Or you're too glute made. We need to strengthen your glute made. And ultimately what I realized after thousands and thousands of pounds was I was going around different professionals and being told a new muscle every other month. And it was like.

17:57Tom MorrisonSomething's not right here. Your body has over 600 muscles in it. So it's never just one muscle problem. And you need to make sure you're addressing things from multiple angles and then integrating it into full body movements as well. We want to get you single leg balance exercises like the single leg deadlift. Things like that are so beneficial for helping knee stability. And that is what's going to give your confidence back as well. If you get yourself to a point where again you're doing single leg deadlifts with weights like then every day when you're walking around, it's like, that's just a treat. You know, how can life be hard if I'm able to do this exercise? It's like walking, no problem, you know? And like, you've done hikes and, you know, all of these kinds of things. All that strength can be there again. It's just making sure to build yourself up gradually. And I call it something called stupid strong. So I don't look at strength now as like...

18:48Tom Morrisonmassive weights that you can lift. I look at strength as more of a, can I put your joints in any position and do you have some level of strength there? Are you able to tolerate me pulling and prodding at your leg from any angle and you can resist that? That's what we're after rather than just, okay, let's give them loads of leg extensions in the gym. It's like, I want your hip to be strong from every angle because that's what's going to support your knee the most. Yes, thank you.

19:15Speaker 2It's so crazy, but it wasn't until like two years ago when I started really focusing in on this that I realized, oh, I'm wearing shoes that are too small and that restrict my foot and the stability of my foot. And as soon as I changed that, just that changed so much for my knees. And you're right about having them in funky positions because I trained so good and

19:42Charles Duhigghave my form be perfect, and then real life happens, and my knee twists like this, and it's not strong anymore. Right, because life does not demand perfect form, right? Life is a bunch of improvised motions, and so that's not what they would call... Oh yeah, let's see, we're looking at Tom. You can see me right now, so... Yeah, Tom is doing a demonstration here. I thought of putting your knees like this.

20:08Charles DuhiggTom just did some Buster Keaton type gymnastics. Is that good for you?

20:14Tom MorrisonIt's not something that I'm gonna say you need to do Jamie but it's just a demonstration of you can increase the load tolerance from joints from multiple angles and that over time you could even start to build towards a progression of that so just like one leg at a time just putting the knee in slightly so I'm not saying to do that it's just to kind of show you you don't want to be thinking oh the body's fragile it's gonna break if you train things in the right way you can get

20:41Charles DuhiggIt joins to be a hell of a lot stronger and feel a lot more confident as well. Now, or I want you to start. I'm sorry guys, this is a podcast, but I really want to be able to show Jamie this. So on the stairs, like I said, your stairs. Okay. This is a podcast, as you probably know, because you're listening to it. So I'm going to describe what Tom is demonstrating. Like I said, there's a video component, which was especially important for this kind of episode. He had his leg up on a riser.

21:06Charles Duhigga pretty tall riser about three feet off the ground. His hips are wide open, very wide indeed. Hello. And he's changing angles on us and showing us that his hips have a Shakira-esque level of flexibility. That's where you really want to start. That's awesome. Jamie, when your rehab specialists, when your doctors or physical therapists prescribed or described what you needed to do? Were they a little prescriptive? Were they of the, oh, it's this muscle that you need to concentrate on? Or if you're doing it wrong, it's because of this other specific muscle? Yes. And I can't blame them because the surgery I had was fairly new at the time from what I understand and from what the doctor was telling me. So they're the closest rehab model they had was an ACL injury.

22:03Speaker 2And so that's what they base it off. And so then their focus was that tiny little muscle on the inside of your kneecap. And that's what's supposed to anchor and hold in your kneecap. And so that had always been the goal, strong quads and then strong glutes. So all of the monster walks and the wall sits and all those were definitely the main focus. And then later on, when I started this journey like two years ago, I met Andrew Meyer.

22:32Speaker 2And he helped me because he worked with a lot of older people who had injured themselves. And I was like, OK, great. You'll be gentle on me. And he was awesome because he's like, OK, we are going to refocus on glutes, quads. And he also brought in some I can't remember what the name is, but a lot of like band techniques to work on that flexibility and things like that.

23:01Speaker 2And he's awesome, but part of the hard part with injuries is like the financial ability to pay for trainers or doctors or physical therapists. And that's kind of what I ran into. And then just like you guys were saying all of a sudden you're at home and everybody has an opinion about what to do online and everyone's got a different system. And so I think that's also why my training got boring because I was just trying to stick to what he taught me and

23:31Charles DuhiggI'd look at new stuff and not know what I could trust, you know, or be scared to try it. Yeah. One's doctor, one's therapist, one's guru being wrong is bad, but almost as bad are a million gurus who say they are right because then we don't know what to choose. And what do we do? What do we default to? We choose nothing. We're stymied, we're overwhelmed. Yes. And so then that's why, thank you, Tom. It's super helpful to see you do

24:00Tom Morrisonweird stuff with your knees and knowing your history and that you understand what it's like physically and mentally and To see you to be able to do that. It's like, okay, I can do this I can do this again, and I can get to a better spot again Yeah, absolutely, and you've done it before that's the biggest thing and yeah the thing it breaks my heart so much whenever I do see people giving up moments in their life that They say, I don't want to do that because my knees will hurt if I do that. And it's like, it's awful. You're literally stopping yourself from having experiences with your family, with your friends, because you're scared of pain. And it's just an awful place to be. But now you've kind of got that, you know, you've done it before. So you can do it again. And every time you start to build up that strength and start to collect some new techniques, start with them really light at first and see how they feel to you and learn as much about muscle activation as you can as well. When you're doing an exercise,

24:56Charles DuhiggIf you should feel your glutes doing that exercise, always question yourself going, do you actually feel my glutes as I'm doing this? Because some people, when they're doing some leg exercises, they push all of their weight through the knee rather than actually pushing and supporting it with the muscles, essentially. So in a second, when we return, you have heard some of Tom's expertise, but we're going to ask him a little bit about the psychological because I think that's so important to everything we've been discussing when how to returns.

25:40Charles DuhiggWe're back with how to. We've been speaking with Jamie and Tom Morrison, who helps develop full body flexibility. And Tom, do you find that for the most part, once you give someone tools and very specific or generalized instruction but actionable instruction, the psychology falls in place or there are other lessons you've learned over the years to activate the mind as well as the body? I think

26:08Tom MorrisonWhen you start focusing on what you can't do, that's when you start going downhill. I can't do this. I can't do that. And you start adding to that list. Your can't list gets bigger. When you focus on the stuff that you can do and start to try and build on that, the things you can do list starts to build up. So I am very passionate about making someone figure out, okay, well, I can do this and this, right? Okay, let's do loads of that.

26:31Tom MorrisonAnd then we'll try and add one more thing. And then we'll try and add one more thing. And when you start to get that little bit of a cycle that you've improved one or two things, it starts to snowball. And you start to get confidence back as well, which is incredible. So it's really just about, like I said, not, you know, it's so hard when you're injured and you can't do the fun stuff. You can't do the stuff you want to do. You start to just go, oh, I can't do that. And what's the point? I'm not even bothered going to the gym today. So you don't want to fall into that trap. Whereas if you're focused on, right, what can I do now?

27:00Tom MorrisonIt almost feels too easy. What can I get done every day and be consistent with? What's that going to take me to? So that's why I like to separate out mobility from exercise. So I would still, yes, train in the gym, lift weights and all that stuff as well. But every day I will do some form of joint mobility. So that little technique on the stairs, I would work on that every day, even when things feel fine, because it's just like...

27:25Tom Morrisonyou know, topping things up essentially. You're just keeping things buttered and making sure that they're gliding and moving nicely. So I would always devote five to 10 minutes every day to some kind of basic joint mobility. And I always have things that are like, I would almost feel embarrassed to not do them because they're so easy for me. So that would be kind of the things, the little bucket that I would put into of like, right, I'm having a bad day. I'll just do this one. So I've at least done something. Yes.

27:51Speaker 2Thank you five to ten minutes is okay. I can find the time for that because that's what I was gonna ask you to I know you mentioned you have a family and You guys have a business and a lot of commitments. Where do you fit this in because I do have a hard time prioritizing myself I am even though I know what's better and I can show up better if I do that but I like what you're saying about Star small even if it feels too easy and move up

28:22Tom MorrisonBest thing that I have found is trying to make it a lifestyle habit of first thing in the morning. You do your five minutes then so that the day can't get away from you. Also, the other benefit of that is as well, if you wake up and move right away for the first couple of weeks, it feels really hard and you might feel a bit stiff and stuff in the mornings.

28:41Tom MorrisonBut the more you do that, your brain twigs on that when you wake up, you move. So then the muscles start to move better. The second you wake up, your brain starts to go, oh, they're awake, right? They're about to do the thing. Let's get things moving. So you'll actually get out of bed feeling less stiff. And you'll start to, essentially, if you get that five minutes done first thing in the day, every step you take for the rest of the day is better step. It's like every step you take is your corrective exercise now, because you did some full joint movement, first of all. So it's really about looking around your home as well of like even when you're walking past a doorframe can you just have a wee stretch on it you know and if you've ever seen some of my videos i'm always wearing jeans i deliberately wear stretchy jeans so that i'm not restricted by my clothing so that i can move more throughout the day as well barefoot shoes are another nice hack too which is really nice to build up on as well so it's trying to

29:30Tom Morrisonimplemented into your life, that you become like an intentional fidgeter. So someone that almost appears like they won't sit still, but you're just like, even that little glute exercise that we did there, I'm doing that right now. I can squeeze him electric. There's little things you can do throughout the day as well. And it all adds up like five minutes a day is 35 minutes a week. That's an extra half hour of a session per week. And it's the little bits that actually build the tolerance. So rather than you taking that 35 minutes and doing it once a week and like really forcing them

30:00Charles Duhiggto your knees. Doing five minutes a day is going to be far more beneficial for you and it lets things build up safely and recover as well. I will say that genes these days, derogor come with spandex. More spandex than usual than we knew. I knew as genes as a kid. So that's really important. Yeah, fits in with the lifestyle. Jamie, would you say that what was getting away or what was causing you to be dispirited was It could be a combination of these, but not knowing what to do, the sameness of what you were prescribed or not seeing the achievement, not seeing the gains. Man, I think all three of those together. And then honestly, I come from two very stressful jobs. And so then I take all of that. And OK, I'm going to go work out. I'm going to get this out. But.

30:53Speaker 2I do think because of that then my movements in the jam are more aggressive and I'm just going harder. I'm pushing myself harder and harder and I just have to get this out. And so then I'm tired and I'm not sleeping right and not recovering well. And then I think it just mentally once you once you let yourself skip a day and then continue to skip a day and continue to skip a day that builds the wrong habit. And so and I think that mentally got me down too because I've been listening to a lot of stuff about how if you just keep promises to yourself that built so much confidence throughout the day or week, whether it's confidence in yourself or confidence in how to move your body or how to do your job or things like that. And so this five to 10 minutes in the morning, I can do that. And I will do that because I'll tell you guys right now, I am 29.

31:49Speaker 2And I'm waking up like an 80 year old getting out of bed, doing my little stiff waddle to the bathroom because my feet hurt and my ankles hurt and my knees hurt and nothing bends correctly. And I'm tired of it. Like I'm done. So I'm going to rope my husband into this because he is super stiff in the mornings too. And we're going to do some mobility and it's going to be, I know it's going to help. I think we're pretty spot on. About five to 10 minutes in the morning of gentler, easier movement.

32:19Tom Morrisonwill help support you pushing yourself in the gym more as well, which that's where a lot of people do go wrong, is they just try and... 100% as hard as they can in the gym and there's no kind of gentle relaxed movement. So it's not like you don't need to take up a full yoga practice every morning for one hour and you know salutations to the sun and everything. It doesn't need to be that much but just doing some gentle stuff to let your body get deep into positions and actually to move the joints like joints that helps you to then load up your Bulgarian split squats or you know push push your training in a different way. So it's just about filling in the gaps.

32:54Speaker 2Does that sound good, Jamie? Yes, absolutely. And I was going to ask you to Tom, I think we touched on this, but to go back to it. So five to 10 minutes in the morning of mobility. Is that something like a full body thing you do? Or do you just pick something different to focus on every day? Or what does that look like?

33:14Tom MorrisonFor you, I would focus on getting deep into the knees. You do it on your bed before you even leave your bedroom. Leg up on something, get the knees moving. Next thing I really like to do is while I'm there, I like to add in a big like thoracic rotation for your upper back. So something else you want to think about is how your spine is supposed to move. You want to make sure you're touching your toes, you're leaning back, extend and you're moving from side to side and you're also rotating as well. And then I would do something to make sure my hands are up above my head as well because like When we think on a long enough time horizon, if you're not actively putting your arms into positions like that in your 70s, 80s, whatever, you can develop frozen shoulder because you haven't essentially moved a joint for such a long time that it just goes, I don't want to do that anymore. And then it's a horrible recovery process from that. So it's just kind of the biggest thing is just making sure you've moved your joints like joints. So I wouldn't even say, don't even say five to 10 minutes. Say it's five minutes, you're going to do. And if you're feeling good and you're enjoying it,

34:11Charles Duhiggthen do ten minutes. If you're feeling a cup of bollardly, I'm too tired, still do your five minutes. That's your non-negotiable. But nine out of ten times when I start having a wiggle, that's me. I'm in and I'm just going, you know. So when I'm having a wiggle, I'm also thinking this one thought. That the greatest trick the hips pulled were convincing the world that they don't lie. Mendacious buggers, those hips. I hate them, but I need them.

34:38Charles DuhiggTom Morrison who helps people develop full-body flexibility and strength for improved movements through his YouTube channel Tom Morrison dot UK. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me. I wish you all the best Jamie you have got this. Thank you so much. I really appreciate both of you. Thank you. Jamie thank you so much and good luck and I do think I don't know maybe this is just me wanting how to to deliver results but More so than usual, I'm inspired to think that you are actually inspired. So thank you, Jamie. And if you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and a review. Apple's a good place for that sort of thing. You can also comment on every individual Spotify episode. And if you want to have a how-to question answered, email us at how-to at mikepeska.com. I have another show called The Gist. And today on The Gist, I interview, play an old interview, of course, with

35:34Speaker 5the late-grade bomb saggot. I could use somebody not making fun of other people. That's what I could use. And I know that there's people that are evil in the world that want to hurt people, but we shouldn't be those people. We're here to unify and have a good time. And if you don't want it, you can get your money back, and I'm sorry, and take off, because I'm not going to have a fight. I just want to have a good time. I really have become Liza Minnelli. I want to entertain people. I really, really do remember.

36:02Charles DuhiggBob did a joke in the 80s, the first time I ever saw him. Maybe a young comedian especially said, my father's poking my mother's Gumby and I'm a Winnebago. I don't know what it meant, but I loved him then, and I loved him even more from this interview. How To is produced by Jeff Craig and Corey Warren. Michelle Peska puts the can do and how to. Charles Duhigg founded the show, hosted it for years, and then left for a bit, giving it to others. And when he did, he reports it was freeing. I found like, I had a new lease on life and I did everything. Oh but soon I can predict that Charles will be back to curate the collection he himself developed. I am Mike Pasca and these are all your questions of how to.