Ladies, We Need To Talk - Jess Mauboy steps into her boss lady era

0:00Hi, I'm Alicia Simmons. And I'm Lee Boucher. As historians, we've spent years digging into the lives of people who've changed history, for better or for worse. So naturally, we are extremely qualified to gossip about them. And because they're dead, they can't sue. In our podcast, we sift through Australia's most notable and notorious characters, giving you our unfiltered takes. Find it by searching for the dead can't sue on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:30I grew up singing outside so I was very familiar with being able to carry a tune out into this open space and I think it was more kind of singing for my parents. Like that strength of believing in someone goes such a long way and for me it stretched around the world.

1:01If you were watching Australian Idol 20 years ago, you'll remember Jess Malboy at just 16 years old. She auditioned barefoot, standing in the red dirt and making music with only her voice, creating one of those moments that TV execs fantasise about and audiences never forget. Jess didn't win Idol, she came second, but she used the exposure and experience to build a legitimate music career and made it last.

1:30sharing stages with everyone from Beyonce to Pitbull, from Jason Derulo to Snoop Dogg. What's it like to be a cute, smart, Indigenous kid with rare singing ability who lives a long way from the big smoke? And if you took that cute, smart, Indigenous kid, jetted her away from her family and homelands and thrust her into the spotlight, made her famous, how would she go? After two decades in the spotlight, how has she managed to stay grounded and kind and joyful? Now in her 30s, Jess has recently become a mum and is taking greater control of her life and her music on her own terms. I'm Umi Steins and ladies, we need to talk to Jess Malboy about the women who made her and the woman she's become. I was always on the ocean on the water in the channels of the Darwin rivers.

2:39We would drive to Buffalo Creek and land the little dinghy, the tin boat. He would weave through the mangroves. Some of Jess's core childhood memories are of fishing for barramundi and mud crabs for dinner with her father. Jess and her four sisters were raised by their Aboriginal mum and Indonesian dad. Food, like her mum's goose curry, was one of the languages they all understood.

3:06just the waf of the garlic and the ginger and the tamarind filtering throughout the kitchen through the hallways up the stairs into our bedrooms. You knew it was just going to fill you up. It was just like one of those meals that could last a whole week for us kids. All girls.

3:27you know I can just imagine like the hormones like of every like individual body in that house and you know it was just full of love like that food was love felt safe. It's a big part of your story I think Jess is how much your parents and your family did fill your cup and give you confidence. But I just love that idea of all the hormones as well. It's so instantly right. But tell me about growing up among all that female energy. Oh my gosh. It was it was a lot in the line of my sisters. I am the second youngest.

4:09There were only three bedrooms, like seven people living in the house. I mean, it was just full, full of like laughter, full of stories. We all would, you know, bunk in one bed sometimes to tell scary stories. And even though we didn't want to, our older sisters like demanded that we listened. So there was a lot of demand. There was a lot of do this for me, do that for me. And you can use some of my makeup or you know, use my hairspray, you know.

4:39The family home was known as the loudest house on the street with Jess and her sisters constantly singing and laughing and fighting. We were very, like, we were so loving, but very, very kind of catty. We knew as the younger siblings to not mess with the older siblings. My parents would always say, when we're not around anymore, you only have each other. So, you know, look after each other, love each other. And...

5:04it'll come back in life or down down the line it'll come back even more like amazing you know like I just got to be patient and be kind like they were my best friends and they chose me and I got to choose them Like many who grow up in a big family, Jess had to learn tolerance, forgiveness and compromise. Alongside those values, Jess's mother instilled a deep connection to culture. She is from two beautiful tribes, so born and raised in Mount Isa in North Queensland, but comes from two beautiful tribes, Cook and Yalanji, Cooktown and then Wakaman Country as well. So we've still got a lot of family up.

5:45far north Queensland and a lot that we're still uncovering and searching for through stolen generation as well on the mother side but that still is so strong and particularly when when mum moved when she was about 10 years old with her sisters when her parents passed on you know she found love and and safeness and and Darwin for the rest of her journey on Larakia country.

6:13You're also cross-cultural in that you've got Indonesian culture as well. Tell me how those two cultures coexist for you. Both existed with a really, I guess, full balance within the house, you know. Mum obviously not knowing or speaking the language, but just stories from her parents to all of her nanas, her uncles and aunties and then cousins, we were just always surrounded by that. On dad's side too was very much like that. For dad it was about religion, it was about going to church and also just working hard, you know, working around the house and the land and I guess to kind of show us the importance of family too.

7:05Jess Malboy's home was a meeting place for family members from a big interconnected family tree where they could come and feel connected. Music was a big part of life and often everyone would end up singing in the backyard. Dad was always had the guitar or the electric guitar and he would sometimes sit there and he would, you know, strum chords, singing one of his songs that he grew up as a child in Kupang in Indonesia.

7:30And, you know, we'd be listening and then we'd try and harmonise with him and he loved that. That was so precious to him when we would sit around after he'd just climbed the coconut tree and cut a coconut down for us to share and then he'd pick up the guitar and he would sing and he would unite us with those things, whether it was feed or story or singing, yeah, singing songs.

7:57But it was more than just food and singing that kept just going. Her parents' faith in her talent and the importance of her heritage gave her something like a two-pronged superpower. I felt like I was just always dreaming big and then also just thinking about the past and people who'd come before me. I think for my parents, I mean it wasn't easy but I think in stealing those things it was like being connected and knowing how to do things on land but also bring others together from that because all those things helped us navigate as as young women and and understand I think where we were going to be and what kind of people we were growing into I feel like I get emotional just thinking about like all the things that they had created in terms of a pathway for us to kind of exist and still remain hopeful and

8:55and believe, you know. There's so much in what you just said, just about believing you could be anything and anchoring back to your ancestors and your land and finding power through that. It all points to a moment in your past that's so famous. And I know I'm treading old ground here, but we were both kind of there in a way, which was your audition for Australian Idol when you were Bethfoot.

9:21Yeah, look, you know, it wasn't really kind of planned. And I wasn't really necessarily thinking about how I was going to deliver the song, but it was just, you know, my bearings. I was like, oh, I'm outside. Like, I know this space. Like, I grew up singing outside. I was very familiar with being able to carry a tune out into this open space. And I feel like that was kind of what made me feel grounded and...

9:49Ready and and when I did it it felt just really easy. I knew the songs I think it was more kind of singing for my parents You know found money to get me there to do this audition like that strength of believing in someone Go such a long way and for me it was like its arms were really hugging me going Yeah, this is you're meant to be here, but you don't need to worry Wow, I'm gonna cry and then then we're not gonna be able to talk cuz I'll be too busy crying That's so it's so beautiful and I can picture it so well because sometimes you do need people to believe in you But it doesn't have to be everybody it can be just a few important people Yeah, that send you off and launch you so that was the start of

10:36your career of Jess Malboy, the public figure. I wonder what were the hard parts, Jess? Like obviously becoming famous at 16 must have been super tricky. Moving away from Darwin, leaving home. How did you survive all of that? It was, it was, it was really hard. And there were a lot of moments that overwhelmed me, but I think really and honestly was after the show when, when there was no cameras anymore, when there was no big lights, when there was no big stage anymore.

11:06I remember going back to school and there was one moment where one of the girls came up and she was like, oh, you think you're good now because you're famous. And it shook me. I knew in the back of my mind that there was going to be that, but I didn't think it was going to hit that full on. But I looked her in the eyes and I said, what makes you think that I think that?

11:36I don't think that I am that. And I remember her kind of like pulling up and going, oh, I wasn't ready for her to come back at me. I think everyone saw me as really quiet, Jess at school. I never rubbed anyone the wrong way. Jess was still a normal kid when she got back to school and often had to explain that she wasn't rolling in cash or fame. Well, not just yet anyway. I just felt like I needed to defend myself. And I think if my parents or, you know, the sisters didn't instill, you know, backbone in me, I would have turned my back and started running away. But Jess didn't run away. She calmly stood her ground and continued to be both a saltwater kid and a pop star because why not both?

12:29After school, she was ready to make music for Australia. It meant commercial radio play, record deals, movies and Eurovision. And despite travelling around the world and recording in major cities, she always came home to Darwin to reset. In her late 20s, back home and over tea with her mum, Theresa, she learnt about the grandmother she'd never met, Nanny Hilda. Jess thinks of her as the original diva. She was always very beautiful.

12:58beautiful chocolate skin, always wore red lipstick. She was someone who enjoyed music and dancing and created a really beautiful loving family. I've found a sense of her personality and hearing stories about her and three images that I also too wanted to be that, just confident and...

13:24and knowing and owning the room but you didn't have a you didn't have an active relationship with her because she died when your mum was just 10 yeah so nanny hilda passed away i think she was 37 actually i'm 37 so when i think about that and think of her and i see her and i just say kind of thank you you know because without you i wouldn't have the mum that I have today and also the stories that have been passed on about you and and who mum is and that strength and that sense of pride which is so powerful. Jess was so inspired by Nanny Hilda she made a whole album in 2019 named after her and dedicated it to both Hilda and her mum Teresa for guiding Jess into womanhood. When I was creating the record Hilda I wanted all those things I wanted to

14:21have my mother's spirit in there and my cousin's sisters and my teddy girls, my sisters. All these women that have held us up, I wanted them to feel like they were all of these songs. So yeah, it was all the things that I had heard about Nana, heard about Hilda. I wanted to kind of keep that alive, you know, and also acknowledge that that also is within me. Hilda was the start of Jess fully focusing on telling her own stories. She co-wrote every track on the album, something that she didn't really get to do much of when she was younger. I think when I started off, I was like, oh yeah, I can sing. But now my goal and the important goal is to be able to write. Now how do I be recognised for that? When I look back at my younger self, I didn't even know me yet. I had to learn.

15:23really fast but at the same time be very kind to myself because I was still learning and picking up tools when it came to music and I think that that writing allowed me to to have that to have that confidence and being able to show up and have something to say or at least have a knowing I knew I could sing but I needed to really feel like from my own story and where that came from.

15:51Jess also found creative freedom by starting her own record label, Jamali Records. It was the end of the era of being a compliant, people-pleasing product of the music industry. I like to think of it as switching on your boss lady mode. Oh, that's what it feels like. Like I could actually just exhale and I kind of felt relieved because I didn't think that imposter syndrome was always beaten down at me all the time.

16:20but I needed to kind of acknowledge that going, I got the reins now, I can take this. Boss lady mode unlocked. Now Jess was using her decades of experience to mould and shape her career and creative output. A song she'd co-written called Yours Forever was just out exalting the beauty of reciprocated love. She was on tour playing massive shows, the song was a hit and life was, well, excellent.

16:49It was falling into line and 2024 was like my happiest and also shocking because I found out I was also pregnant. So it was two things of oh wow what it's now just happening. Being acknowledged, being really respected in music, being kind of like unapologetic about it too because I just wanted everyone to work together and I was that kind of peacemaker but now I didn't have to feel like that.

17:17Was there a conflict between your pursuit of great music and trying to be a parent? Oh, like so much. I think it was just scary because I just, when the news kind of happened, I was halfway touring. And I knew that I was because I'd just come off doing the two hour show.

17:43And my hands were sweaty and I was on all fours. I was literally huffing and puffing. I was like, I feel weird. Like I feel really dizzy. Like, yes, I'd done a two hour show, like high intensity without stopping, without any breaks. And I've done this before, but why am I like, is it my menstrual cycle? Yeah, hormones. And yeah, my hormones.

18:10And yeah, it was nuts. I think it was a week later, I'd done a test and I was so afraid to tell anyone. And even my own team, I remember I was like, everything's planned. Like, what are we going to do? I don't want to disappoint anyone. That started to creep in. And obviously, the first person I told was my partner. And it was so over the moon. My partner and I, them and I have been together for like 20 plus years.

18:40I always knew he wanted to be a dad. He always knew that I wanted to be a mom and it was just, you know, when we always kept asking each other, like, when is the right time? But as Jess found out, the best time to have a baby is when you're pregnant with a baby. Unlike so many people in the public eye, especially the young, cute and photogenic, Jess and her husband were never tempted to sell pictures of their wedding. They lived privately and kept the pregnancy a secret.

19:09I was also determined to work through as well. And not crazy, but I still wanted to try and be able to balance and have that experience for myself because I'd heard so many stories. I was reaching out to people, how are you doing it? Are you still working? When did you stop working? And so I think with a lot of that knowledge and a lot of that open conversations that I was having behind doors, It really helped bring a sense of like, I can do this. I really wanted to be my selfish self and just like really privately experience what I was going through. And I'm really proud and glad that I was able to keep that for me, just so I could go through the fields and without taking anybody else's on. That was the one thing I could really control at the time.

20:03I'm so happy. Like it has, I remember when I was singing pregnant, it really, I was sad to sing from a different place. Yeah. There's less room in there. I have to find another gut. I was like, can I use somebody else's gut because there is no room. That's so good. So we've talked about your mum, we've talked about your sisters, your grandma, Hilda. How have those women influenced how you'll be a mum? Oh, in so many ways. I think when I think about Nani, When I think about Nanny Hilda, I think about how her time wasn't enough, you know, for herself. And I often think, oh my gosh, I'm going to get emotional. Yeah, I think about that she didn't get the time with her beautiful kids who have turned out so amazing, who have been like my own mum, you know, like Annie Raleigh and Annie Ronda.

21:07only Cheryl, they are my mums as well. Backed by a millennia of ancestors, the women in Jess's life have funneled their power and fierceness into a woman who understands that power can be female. Women who had to fight and find, find solace somewhere and create that strength and create that motherness whilst thinking about Their mom who's passed on and never got the chance to have any of those those firsts Now becoming a mom or and now a mom Yeah, I just always want to hold space for other women and other mothers or other people who have defined that for me I want to be I want to trust her, you know as my parents trusted me

22:04they instilled so much trust that I went out into the world so young and I was determined to put my voice in all these different spaces. And that's why I want to continue to be and feel that she can, that feeling of being on top of the world for her.

22:26And Jess, can you see how the inspiration that you might give your daughter also translates to the way that your work feeds other young girls and young women? Yeah. Oh, yes. So much, you know. And I feel like that's how I've always been with my music. So much is to give.

22:49My vulnerability like who I am and where I'm from and like just that bit of grit You know that little bit of tongue-in-cheek If I can give that with it in the song in the music and that could be felt that's the most important and For someone to go away and look in the mirror or be in their car Be on the treadmill, you know, have the ear pods in or you know, however you're listening to music That's what makes me happy and keeps me going. It keeps me wanting to be in the space because I feel like that's my responsibility as an artist. Every time I get into the studio, that is my goal is when I sit there and I'm going through all those fields. I'm wishing and hoping that that is going to be felt by somebody else.

23:41with their own experience. It's so funny because you describe somebody maybe listening on the treadmill with the ear pods in and it's it's such it's light years away from your childhood where dad's up the tree you're in the backyard there's an acoustic guitar it's there's nothing plugged in there's no screens I'm wondering I'm curious about Mia and her experience of childhood I know she's just little at the moment but have you brought her back to Darwin?

24:06I have many times, she's such a little traveler already. She's done already more, we're laughing because she's done more flights than them, her father. And we just, we got a really good gut laugh out of that. Was she BSL Water Kid too? I hope that for her. I'm wanting to have for her...

24:32you know that connection to where I grew up you know feeling a sense of freedom and to experience you know the smell of waking up in Darwin to like you know knowing when it's going to rain because you can smell the rain before it even hits and she like already like the amount of times we've gone back she's she's kind of sits there in the backyard like beside the pool and she can see her kind of really feeling the heat.

25:02And I remember that as a kid I've had these fond memories of us just you know after like you know a 10 minute play would be there like huffing and puffing and like just sweat dripping from us and you know mom's like you kids don't come in here because you'll be wanting to go inside and get a bit of water she's like I'll bring the water out you kids are not coming inside and I see that I see that already with her running around and running in the this the monsoon rain and taking her out on dad's little tin boat and you know taking her out for a fish and her catching her first crab or first barra. Has she tried the goose curry? She has. It was a bit spicy at the time but yeah she loved the potatoes because mum puts potatoes and it was a different taste. The goose was a bit tough.

25:57Yeah, it was beautiful to watch because they're all things that I'm still yet to experience with her as she grows and she continues to grow and to do who she is. Well, congratulations on everything, especially becoming a mum.

26:16Thank you. And the beautiful relationships that you've maintained throughout your career, your long and successful career, Jess Maubois, so good to talk to you. Lovely to see you. Take care. Love you, Sissy. Have a good day. Ta-ra. Bye. This podcast was produced on the lands of the Gadigal, Moenina and Daroel people.

26:38Ladies We Need To Talk is mixed by Anne-Marie Debettencore. It's produced by Elsa Silberstein and Sarah Mashman. Our supervising producer is Emma Morris and our executive producer is Taymar Kranswick. This series was created by Claudine Ryan.