Ladies, We Need To Talk - Worst ever dates_ with Alita Brydon

0:01You're about to listen to an episode about dating disasters when our quest for romance goes terribly wrong But sometimes things do go right and people meet their person and they make it work If you're one of those smug buns who's in a happy long-term relationship, we want to know your secret What is the glue that holds you together when times get tough?

0:27How do you stay connected years after the initial lust has faded? What makes you friends as well as mates? We are looking for the secret source that keeps your relationship healthy and alive. Send us an email or a voice note to ladies at abc.net.au. ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more. He arrives with a bunch of flowers and takes you out for a nice meal.

0:58The banter is flirty and you're horny and when you leave he holds your hand and suggests you come back to his place. But when you get there, you lose. His housemates are smashing beers in the lounge room, there's bong water in the carpet and the vibe is generally unwelcoming. You retreat to his bedroom where the sheets are dank and sort of sour looking and there's a smell.

1:26Really bad incense, like shitty, cheapest incense. Dust, layers of dust everywhere. Crappy band posters that it framed. The music I hated. And there was a broken bed. Dating should be adventurous and sexy, or at the very least, not shit. We spend hours getting ready, grooming our bodies, changing the sheets, applying makeup.

1:52and picking an outfit that somehow communicates the perfect mixture of put-together, smart, sassy and bang up for getting railed. All while vision boarding tonight as the start of our epic love story. No pressure. But what are they bringing? Finding a potential long-term lover in the fathomless silt of duds and normies is labour-intensive. Generally, unrewarding and surprisingly tedious. Between swearing off the apps again, screaming into the void and trying to manifest love through tarot, witchcraft, astrology and animal sacrifice, is there something we can learn? Can experience tune up our radar as we swipe? Or I've got a better idea.

2:45Should we just have fun bonding and warming our hands together over the bin fire that is the world of modern dating? I'm Umi Steins, ladies. We need to talk about bad dates with Elita Bryden. I went on a date with this guy, and he shows up with this massive bunch of flowers. And, like, it's kind of sweet, but at the same time, like, you're carrying these flowers around all night?

3:23This is Melbourne based writer Alita Bryden. So we get talking about what he likes to do in his spare time and he tells me he enjoys trolling people on the internet. No, he told you that? He told me shamelessly like it was this great hobby that he had. Then he says to me...

3:41What are your thoughts on second cousins getting married? And I thought, this is strange. This is a strange date discussion for this guy to go through. And then he starts telling me his thoughts on feminism and why it's no good. And at this stage of the date, I'm like, how do I get out of here? How do I get home? He goes to drop me off. He goes in for a kiss. I dodge it. And I run up the driveway and run home. This experience with the troll didn't slow young Elita down. She was a motivated data.

4:08I used to be a real Tinder addict like I would be swiping all the time to the point where my thumb was getting calloused like I loved it. A leader was having a good time, even though the dodgy dates were more common than decent dates. While clearly communicating that she was looking for a relationship, she found that men would agree that they too wanted a relationship but then would expect one-night stands. She was ghosted and grossed out by men with grody old mattresses on the floor, impoverished conversation skills and profoundly compromised hygiene. She was giving maximum effort but receiving minimum return.

4:44Except one day, Elita realised that these bad dates made for really great stories. So she started a Facebook page called Bad Dates of Melbourne where she posted her own experiences. Within weeks, people started writing in and the page absolutely took off. In the first two weeks, I think it had like 1.5 million people looking at the page. Are you kidding? They read these stories and they say...

5:11I thought I was alone. I thought there was something wrong with me. I thought I was the only person this was happening to. But then I found out, like I read these stories and I found out they're actually happening to everyone all around us. So reading the stories is really validating if you're out there dating. One of your stories has permanently lodged itself in my brain. Tell me, tell me. This is from years ago, right? A girl met some guy on Russell Street in Melbourne. Yes. He was like...

5:40I can't park. I'm just going to do a lap and then come back and park because I know parking on that street is so shit, right? And then he just drove off. Oh, yeah. I remember that one. Do you remember that one? Yeah, he left her just on the side of the street in the gutter. Oh, we're so brutal. And that's not the only story. Oh, for sure.

5:57There have been stories where, like, someone will be on the date and then all of a sudden the person will just turn into a runner. Just completely randomly. It is so... It is so rough out there. It is so rough. It is so rough. Do you know I once did a bolt on a date? No. It wasn't so much of a bolt. I realised halfway through it that he had a girlfriend. And I was just like, I'm not even going to say anything. I'm just going to leave. I think that's fair enough. Yeah. That's departing politely.

6:26Enjoy the awful stories, but I do not envy the awful stories. Oh, I know what you mean. What is it about modern dating that makes it easier for people to behave badly? I think that people have always behaved badly. I think it's just that we see it now, that everything's gone digital. Just now we talk about it on social media and there's less shame when you share a bad date story now as opposed to 50 years ago.

6:53Annalida, why do you think we find it so delicious to share when things go wrong on a date? Oh, bad date stories have everything like they have heartbreak, they have hope, they have disappointment. So they really are these like amazing little tales. And on bad dates of Melbourne, like there are funny stories for sure. And the stories on the page are mostly entertaining. But there are also like these really serious stories too, where we go into disrespect and consent and all of these heavy issues. So, you know, Bad dates, they're kind of like an introduction to knowing yourself in a way like dating is a way in which we grow and learn ourselves. Yeah, and learn how to set boundaries. Yeah, we learn how to set boundaries. I think a lot of dating, a lot of it has to do with identity. So when you're stronger in yourself, when you know who you are, when you set boundaries, a lot of the dating stuff falls into place and becomes a lot easier. So when we're in our 20s, we're still learning what dating is like, right?

7:55We're still learning ourselves, so you put up with a lot of bad behaviour. But the older you get and the more you get to know yourself, the easier dating becomes. Dating for me in my 40s is much easier for it was for me in my 20s. Alita's no longer dating like it's her full-time job. But when she does go on dates, she's upfront about the fact that she runs this huge social media page dedicated to sharing bad behaviour.

8:19You can tell they're freaking out about it. So I'm pretty upfront about what I do when going on dates now, but you know, it doesn't work for everyone. Sure. I feast on that fear. That sounds delicious to me. Now, Alita, one of our producers, Elsa, headed out onto the streets of Sydney. She wanted to get some stories and had a very busy evening because there were so many ladies out there with so many horror stories. This is one of the first people Elsa bumped into. I went on a date with this.

8:48very corporate fuck boy who picked me up in a Lamborghini with the like wing doors he spent the whole night trying to show off and like drive really fast on the motorways taking me to fancy places for drinks and we went back to his house he had this designer fluffy little like shih tzu dog who the whole time was like on the bed with us and I was so uncomfortable did you ever during coitus make eye contact with his dog? Yeah. Like, yeah. Because I was like, what are you looking at? What are you doing here? Why doesn't he put you outside? And then I was going to stay the night. But what stopped me was he rolled over and kissed his dog on the lips and then rolled over to kiss me. And I just was like, I'm getting it over home. Like, this is not your dog watching and then kissing your dog at the end of it. Like, it's just too much.

9:46Um, we had a story on bad dates of Melbourne once where during the actor dog came up and licked someone on the bum. So I have heard this sort of thing before. I feel like the corporate wanker is a real type, right? Like they wear their patent socks and that's their personality type.

10:04Ouch. Ouch. I've never been in a car with wing doors, I don't think. No. I actually have to say I'd be a little impressed by that. I find that a little bit cool. What about the dog kiss? Is that a red flag or was that woman being too sensitive? I think it's a red flag. I feel cats and dogs need to stay out of the bedroom. Like that's a little bit too much.

10:25Yeah, look, the licking and the kissing is one thing, but the eye contact is the other as well. OK, our next story also takes place in a car. One guy was obsessed with Shrek. We sat in his Tesla and we were watching Shrek and he was like showing me all of the parts in the movie. He paused it and was like...

10:48see the scene and then he shows me his tattoo. It was like Shrek and Donkey looking out in the sun. And then he went, wait, call me for a second. So I called him and then he pressed play. And then it was the scene, the exact sound that his springtime made. What did you say? I was just like, oh my god, cool. I don't know, is that a red flag or is that a green flag? I'm not so sure. It's Shrek green, but it's red on the inside.

11:18Something that I'm getting from that story about the Shrek guy was that the woman's nodding along and she's trying to be understanding and say okay He's really interested in this particular animated movie for children. It's not my thing, but I will nod and smile rather than Him finding out about her and him investigating her interest and being curious is that something that you observe in bad dates of Melbourne? Oh my gosh all of the time I think not asking questions is one of the big ones on dates like you have a lot of men and it is primarily men and they go on these dates and they expect you to ask all the questions they talk about their lives the whole time and they don't

11:58ask you anything back. So when people swipe on apps, I recommend before you go on the date, scroll through the conversation and look and see are they actually asking questions about my life beyond like how was your weekend? Are they digging for more? Do they want to know more about who you are as a person or are they just going through the motions with the lifeless and you every time they answer a question? No, asking questions. They're such a big red flag.

12:28She was fox-popping men as well, but just found that some of the men's stories were like, yeah, she turned up late. It was terrible. Men do have a tough time when dating, but it's not in the same league as women. Like, men's stories, and I don't want to discount them. Like, they're going to be quite hurtful and sad stories, like, you know, I wasn't tall enough or she...

12:50took advantage of me for paying for the bill all the time. But women's stories, they're quite serious and, you know, they can be about assault and disrespect. Like, they're not in the same league as women. Since she started cataloguing this huge living library of other people's dates, Alina has gotten some perturbing insights into her own past romances.

13:13So I was seeing this guy and the morning after we were together he was hanging at my house and he's like, ah, like, do you mind calling me an Uber so I can get home? And at the time I thought...

13:25Like that's a strange request like this guy was employed and quite together like he said his credit card wasn't working Anyway fast forward a couple of years I'm on bad dates of Melbourne and someone brings up in the comments that a lot of men who cheat Won't book Ubers from their own phones because they don't want the receipt to show up in their Uber history or in their email my god So I looked back at that experience where the guy made me order the Uber on his behalf and I thought Did he have someone he was hiding from me? And I look back at his behaviour and some of the red flags that he was throwing up. And I just think maybe he did. Maybe he did. Like it's interesting because I would never have thought that that would be a red flag to look out for. But on Bad Dates of Melbourne you learn this stuff and you become a better data because of it. Is that your only experience where you realise the guy was probably married? There have been a few guys where I look back and I've had suspicions.

14:24But there's been no one where I've had like concrete evidence. I just feel like there's a lot of people on dating apps who are dishonest about their marital status. And yeah, it's like I've had guys where it hasn't sit well with me in hindsight. Yeah, I've got a theory now. I would never ever spend any time with a man who says his wife is in labor.

14:47Because this has happened to me a few times where I've been at a gig or I've just struck up conversation with someone and I'm quite friendly. I don't mind, like, yarning with a stranger and he said my wife is in labour and I've been, oh, congratulations, that's amazing. And I realised later that they want to fuck someone before their baby is born. No. Yeah, it's a whole thing. No. Yes. Because I was new to this. I just didn't realise that that was a whole thing that people wanted to do.

15:13You know, we had a story on bad dates of Melbourne once and the guy was on a date and he canceled for whatever reason and she ended up finding out that the reason he canceled the date is because his wife was giving birth to a child. Yes. It's so rotten out there. It's like rotten. It's rotten out there. But I do believe in going on dates because there's something about that face-to-face contact that you really need to do that kind of cuts through all the nonsense. Like you could spend hours dating months chatting to each other online and not really understand what it's like when you're face-to-face. Yeah, I feel like you can get to know someone quite quickly within five or ten minutes when it's face-to-face. Because when you chat with them for ages you kind of have this idea in your head so what sort of person they are. And a lot of the time that doesn't work out in real life. 100%. So face-to-face dates are very important I would say. One time I went on a face-to-face date with this guy and I could smell a really strong smell coming off him and it wasn't...

16:11It wasn't Cologne, it wasn't BO, it was more like something very industrial. Right? And I couldn't work it out and then eventually I got what it was, it took me a while. It was hair glue. No! Oh my gosh, hair glue, that is wild.

16:32Her hair glue had a smell. But he said to me, can you just tell me if this is going anywhere, Yumi? Because I've got this other Asian girl that I quite like and I'll go out with her if you're not interested. Oh my gosh. I know, and he had to put that she was Asian too. I know. Is there a lot of racial stuff on bad dates of Melbourne?

16:49sometimes there is. We had one just the other day where a woman went on a terrible date that she was set up with by a friend. On the date the person played poker the whole time on their phone during dinner. She found out after the reason they were set up was because they were both Asian and the person felt like this was enough for them to have a connection.

17:13No. No. No. No. That is disastrous. Terrible. But you know my friends who is single and will go on dates, she said sometimes my friends just set me up simply because we are both single. That is the entirety of the things that we have in common. I love that you say she's single and she will go on dates because there's a lot of people who are single and they don't go on dates because they're so fed up with what it is like out there. Totally. This next woman got the whole boyfriend treatment.

17:42This guy was so romantic. Took me on like a rowboat. Incredible. Picnic by a waterfall. Amazing. I was like, I'm going to be a good girl and I'm going to like wait because I want to take it slow, take it seriously. And then after five days, we had sex. It was really intense. It was really beautiful. And he was like, I feel so connected to you and I don't do anything casual. And then the next day, he disappeared. Yes.

18:12Can we talk about this thing of having sex with somebody and giving them the big boyfriend experience in the full cell and you feel like it's going somewhere. But once you've had that sex, they disappear, they ghost you. Why is that so common? This is a real male thing, isn't it, that they do? Like, as soon as they have sex, like a lot of them will no longer feel interested in you and it's disappointing, isn't it? Yeah. You feel like you're really connecting with someone and then all of a sudden, like, things seem to shift.

18:42it can be really devastating. Yeah and why do they want to do that? Why don't they just be honest? Yeah it's really frustrating and you have so many like people out there and men out there who will lie like outright lie because they want to get laid and it's really hard if you're out there dating and looking for something genuine.

19:00Yeah, totally. So brutal. Alita, I've got a few more stories to share from Elsa's night out in Sydney. This next person was on a date with someone who organises orgies. So I walked into his house. Really bad incense, like shitty, cheapest incense. Dust, layers of dust everywhere. Crappy band posters that he'd framed. The music I hated. So this was you went in because he was organising an orgy? I was just curious. Yeah, I was just curious.

19:30So it was shitty, disgusting, one bedroom flat, and then broken bed. So he conducts the orgies in this flat, right? And it was like that. and there was a broken bed. Oh my god. That is a low rate orgy. I mean, I feel if you're like committed to an orgy, the least they can do is a bit of mood lighting and a nice bed and maybe a few snacks when you arrive. Like not that I'm interested in having an orgy, but you know, you've got to have standards. What's the worst part of the story for you? For me, I think it's the dustiness. For me, I think it's the bed. Like you can't even get your life together to have a bed that's not broken. I mean, oh, it's a bit sad. Yeah, it is.

20:09one of the sort of primary needs, isn't it? A bed that works. I love her specificity about the cheap incense. It wasn't enough that it was just incense. It's cheap. There are some really grotty men out there. There was a post on Bad Day to Melbourne a few days ago of a man who ate lind balls, like the little chocolate balls, and he threw the wrappers on the ground as he finished eating them. Like...

20:36How? Like, where do these people come from? Like, they're not very house proud. Oh, Jesus. It is... Oh, my whole body is in revolve right now. OK, Alita, here's another one for you. The night started off well. I went on a date with a guy. It was a boy-lo-maker. It was cool. We're chatting for a bit. Nice date, 20 minutes in. Everything was going cool. And then at the end of the date, he kind of dropped the bomb that his last girlfriend just died.

21:05and it killed the whole mood of everything. And then we were just sitting very awkwardly in the restaurant and that sort of ended it. So maybe they were not ready to date yet.

21:14It's like am I a therapist or am I a date? It was a bit strange, it was a bit strange. It's funny because like it is super awkward but this is more traumatic than like a hilarious bad days of Melbourne story. Like it's actually like quite an awful thing to have happened and you know you got to think of where that person's coming from but yeah it's definitely a moot killer. Very compassionate response Elida. I guess like people whose last partner died have every right to date right? I guess it's more about when Men use a date, especially a first date to just dump on somebody that they don't even know with a whole bunch of trauma and pain and sort of unreciprocated power dumping. Yeah, and you kind of find yourself talking like you're a therapist on the date and like, you know, giving them life advice and compassion and that's not really what we're here to do on a date. You can feel sorry for someone, feel very sorry for the man, but at the same time, like on a first date, it's not the most appropriate topic to be bringing up.

22:10I think it's important to put out who you are pretty early on so that you can filter, I guess, the ones who aren't on the same page as you. So what's a good exit strategy that we could learn from bad dates of Melbourne?

22:23For some people this is very controversial but I don't think you have to be honest when leaving a date. So if you get a little headache and you've got to leave I think that's perfectly fine. We get caught up in the idea that truth is so essential and important and it is. But if you want to slip out of a date and be kind, having a little headache or a meeting you've forgotten about can be a perfectly acceptable way to get out of it. It's not always safe to leave a date by standing up and saying I don't like you anymore or you've made me feel uncomfortable and leaving like you can tell these little liars to get out of the date itself. Yeah I support that as well especially if it's early days you don't know them anything. Oh you don't know them anything and you know you never know how they're gonna react to you.

23:08ending a date as well so you need to get out of there as easily as you can. Okay give me some advice. I'm not dating at the moment but I am like chronically single. I'm also really sensitive to perfume smells and those sort of anything sort of fake fragrances give me an almost immediate headache and I feel queasy being around it. Would it be okay for me to say listen I'll totally go on a date with you but you have to promise not to wear perfume or cologne?

23:34Well, you can always put it out there and see what sort of reaction you get. But then again, like, if your life is happy now and things are good, like, who says you have to date? Like, who says you need to go on all these dates? So dating is this great, wonderful thing that we do. But like, if you're happy being single, be single and enjoy it. Like, single life is amazing. Single life is amazing. I want to leave people with a little bit of hope. Alita, what's good about the dating world?

24:03Look, dating is still exciting. Like when you get to know someone, it's still like fun and you know that exciting feeling when they send you a text and you read the text and it's like dating is fun. Like falling in love is fun and we all enjoy it. So like there's a reason we go through these bad dates and it's ultimately because when you meet someone amazing, you look back and you think, oh, all of that drama was worthwhile. So I think.

24:29Bad dates are awful, but love makes it worthwhile. Aww, that's so nice. And we get the hilarious stories in the meantime. I know, they're very entertaining, so. Well, thank you so much for joining us and sitting around the dating bin fire with me. Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. I've loved it. Great to talk to you, and I look forward to seeing you on the apps. Ah, thanks so much, Yumi. You too. This podcast was produced on the lands of the Gadigal, Moorina and Durawal people.

24:59Ladies We Need To Talk is mixed by Anne-Marie De Bettencore. It's produced by Elsa Silberstein and Sarah Mashman. Our supervising producer is Emma Morris and our executive producer is Taymar Kranswick. This series was created by Claudine Ryan.