Lex Fridman Podcast - _500 _ Khabib Nurmagomedov_ Dagestan_ MMA_ UFC_ Islam_ Conor_ Fedor _ Football

0:00Lex FridmanThe following is a conversation with Habib Nurmagomedov, one of the greatest fighters of all time, who retired from the UFC undefeated with a perfect 29 and old record. It was a huge honor for me to meet him, to train together, and to have this deep conversation. We had this conversation entirely in Russian. This was my first time doing so on this podcast.

0:28Lex FridmanAnd even these words I'm saying right now are spoken in Russian. So, if you're hearing me in English, you're actually listening to the English dub. On YouTube, you can switch between language audio tracks by clicking the settings gear icon, then clicking audio track, and then selecting the language you prefer. For the original Russian version, select Russian. And for the English dub, select English.

0:58Lex FridmanSubtitles are also available in both languages. The translation and dubbing are a collaborative effort of translators, real human beings, including myself and AI. Thanks to the incredible team at Eleven Labs for their help. And now please allow me to take this moment to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for your love and support all these years. I love you all.

1:30Lex FridmanAnd now, a quick few second mention of a sponsor. Check them out in the description or at lexfreedman.com slash sponsors. It is in fact the best way to support this podcast. And by the way, as a brief aside, you're probably listening to this on Spotify or RSS. And so this is an interesting experiment because the original conversation is done entirely in the Russian language. So, ladies and gentlemen, дамы и господа, друзья, товарищи, братья и сестры.

1:58Lex FridmanWhat you will be listening to is actually an English dub, but on YouTube you can listen also to the Russian original With subtitles and both Russian and English. I think all of that is explained in the intro. I just wanted to say one more time We're always trying new things experimenting. So thank you for your patience your support along the way spasiba agromne za все All right back to the sponsors. We got whisper flow for voice detect writing Element for electrolytes Shopify for selling stuff online better help for mental health and of course our friend perplexity for curiosity-driven knowledge exploration Tuesdays in my friends and now on to the full ad reads I try to make them interesting, but if you skip Please still check out our sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too to get in touch with me for whatever reason Go to lexfreedmen.com slash contact. All right, let's go

2:57Lex FridmanThis episode is brought to you by whisper flow the AI voice dictation app that lets you write by speaking the app I've been using every single day to do a lot of communication with the robot living inside my computer Increasingly most of the programming I do most of the interaction with the agentic systems I do are done by voice and it works flawlessly On Android iPhone, it works on my desktop. It just works. And it has a bunch of useful features, including you can have a custom dictionary where you add words so it learns from you. The thing is just incredible. It's a great execution on an obvious thing that should have existed a long time ago. There's many things like that in life and nobody builds it. I'm glad WhisperFlow built it. And so if you've never tried the tool, I highly recommend it might change your life.

3:50Lex FridmanI think the key difference with whisper flow over any speech-to-text system is it got past that threshold where it's very accurate and almost no cleanup is needed for the things it generates. So you can just talk freely and it's going to get the thing right, which is incredible. Also, I should mention because I'm an Android guy, it works really well on Android sometimes. These super advanced tech companies.

4:19Lex FridmanDon't give enough love to Android. You know, it's iPhone first often. So, I appreciate the love on the Android side of things. Go to whisperflow.ai slash lex to get one month of whisperflow pro free. That's W-I-S-P-R flow.ai slash lex. This episode is also brought to you by Element. My daily zero sugar and delicious electrolyte mix I'm sipping in on it now.

4:47Lex FridmanIt's cold, it's delicious, in the Texas heat, it is very much needed. I run almost every single day, at least five miles, usually over 10 miles. For that, it's essential to get water, and it's essential to get electrolytes. Element is my favorite place to get electrolytes. Sodium, potassium, magnesium, all the crazy fast thing I do, all the crazy work load, staying up all night, all of those things I do. Element is there.

5:17Lex Fridmanto be the foundation of good health for me. That I'm feeling good, no headaches. The biological system that fuels the brain is replenished. Watermelon salt, of course, is my favorite flavor. Get a free eight count sample pack with any purchase. Try it at drinkelement.com slash lex. This episode is also brought to you by Shopify, a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere with a great looking online store.

5:46Lex FridmanI have been staying off the internet for the most part but every once in a while when I open up X and I see DHH or I see Toby who is the CEO of Shopify post something it just fills me with joy these are people that build these are people that create these are people that are trying to make systems in the world that bring joy into people's lives whether that joy has to do with just sheer beautiful craftsmanship, or that joy has to do with scale. Fast, low-latency execution of simple ideas at scale, which Shopify delivers. Incredible platform, incredible tooling built-out platform, and incredible people, engineers built-out platform. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Lex. That's all lowercase, go to Shopify.com slash Lex to take your business to the next level today.

6:45Lex FridmanThis episode is also brought to you by better. I am in a good mood currently. I'm not sure why just feeling good. I love everybody. I love you dear listener Anyway, I'm talking about better help. It's spelled H-E-L-P help they Help you figure out what you need and match it with a licensed professional therapist in under 48 hours If you want to feel good in your soul and your heart in your mind to the people around you Talk therapy might be a thing we're trying and better. Hope is easy discreet affordable and Available everywhere. It's a great first up if you haven't done that kind of thing before Check them out at betterhop.com slash Lex and save on your first month. That's better help comm slash Lex and on the topic of happiness I just want to say one more time. Thank you

7:44Lex FridmanThank you for all the love from all the folks who stopped me every once in a while. Give me a hug. Have a wonderful conversation. It brings joy to my heart. It makes me grateful to be alive. Thank you everybody. Thank you for the support all these years. Thank you for the love. All right, let's go. This is Alex Friedman podcast and now dear friends here's Habib Nurmagomedov. Let's try and Russian if we can like you suggested.

8:28Lex FridmanCan help you out if you need yeah, thanks brother. I kind of feel it in my heart and soul But sometimes I can't find the right words. I know brother. We got this great. Let's start from the beginning So that gym back in Dagestan where you trained is legendary for its Spartan conditions It was just one shower for 70 people only cold water and yet this humble little gym managed to raise more than 20 world champions, including several UFC champions. Can you try to explain or maybe reflect on what factors in that gym, those training sessions, that life in Dagestan created so many champions? Sure, so we're talking about the gym, the one located in Mahachkala. And Mahachkala, for the people who don't know, it's the capital of Dagestan. This was back around the years from 2000 to 2010.

9:28Khabib Nurmagomedovand even later on. In 2019, we opened up a big gym, a major facility that is still functioning to this day. But before 2019, we all actually trained in that gym, where there was practically nothing. It was just a school gym with nothing but mats, a single punching bag, one climbing rope and a kind of indoor basketball court.

9:53Khabib NurmagomedovAnd if we go even further back before 2000, before we moved to Mahacala, we lived in a village. In the village, we had a gym right inside our house. My father, he built a gym at home and he was training all the local village kids right there. And there were times back when I was a child, let's say when I was maybe six or seven years old, I would occasionally wake up to the sound of people training, doing their drills right there in the gym.

10:23Khabib NurmagomedovYou know, like with judo or freestyle, when they're drilling, one guy throwing another. Those are my first conscious memories. I was maybe 5, 6, 7 years old at that time. So, my father set up this gym in the village and trained local kids, including me, my older brother and all our close and distant relatives, anyone who wanted to come. A lot of kids came to him. So, you would wake up and there are these sounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear the hitting, the throwing.

10:53Khabib Nurmagomedovover and over. And my father's voice, how he's shouting, giving instructions, pushing someone, coaching, teaching. I lived with those sounds, but that was in the village. And later, when we moved to Makhajkala, well, you couldn't say the gym there was wow either. They were only mats. And of course the most valuable thing an athlete can have, a coach, my father. So he trained us there. And to be honest, until I Let's say, until I became a champion and had big success, we never had a good big gym where we could, you know. All take a shower together at the same time after training. We always had just one shower for everyone. No proper amenities. So, your life story began in the mountains of Dagestan in Sildi, then Kirva-Ul and then Makhachkala and in all these situations.

11:53Khabib NurmagomedovThere are very interesting stories. But one of the things I heard you say is that the best results are born out of the worst conditions. What can you say about that? Philosophically, is it correct to say that comfort is kind of the enemy for champions? It depends on the sport. For example, let's say in football, you have to have conditions. You can't really play if there is practically no field. Of course, you can play in the dirt and it happens sometimes. You can start there.

12:21Khabib NurmagomedovBut when you are 10 or 12 years old, you already have to be at a certain level, you must have conditions. But if we look at our sport, then what is the most important thing? The coach. You also need sparring partners who will push you in the gym, as they say, right? And you need the mats. Our sport is not expensive. You just buy your wrestling shoes, singlets, shorts.

12:48Khabib Nurmagomedova t-shirt, and if there's a mat, you wrestle, you become a champion, you fight. But when you live too well, let's say, you know, you're never in need. For example, you were born into a wealthy family and you already have everything. Would that same wealthy father, would he force you to do such a brutal sport? A sport where you come home every day, with injuries, where you come home with an exhausted body, You come home with bruises, would you really do that? That's the question. And the kid himself, who lives a life of luxury, would he even want to do this? When we look at it statistically, the answer is no. This is where you need that hunger. You have to be in a position where you are truly in need. And it's interesting that there is a psychological side to this as well, that you need a tough situation to create champions.

13:44Khabib NurmagomedovBut what's really interesting is how Dagestan has produced so many wrestling champions. You mentioned football. Let's look at other countries. Why has Brazil produced so many great football players? Why does Argentina have so many football players? Of course, you have Germany, France and all that. European, yeah. The whole European side. But those are completely different cultures. Yes, well in Brazil, their strength is in their numbers. How many people do they have? The population is huge, more than 200 million.

14:13Khabib NurmagomedovAnd people really love it there. It's a huge tradition. Because you know without a real love for this sport, you can never achieve any success. You truly have to love what you are doing. So they have the tradition and they have the love for it. And that is why they play for all the top clubs. Well, I think they just win by numbers. Yeah, that's a powerful aspect of their culture. How much people, how much the whole nation loves to play football. And if you add to that a system that creates strong teams, That's how you can produce so many football legends. Yes, take Dagestan for example. We love football. I just know how much people in Dagestan love football. Yes, we have wrestlers, fighters. There are many of us. But for football players, there is no ecosystem like that. Not so well organized where a kid can, for example, play at school, then go to some academy, then get noticed there and then get picked up by a club. We don't have that system. It's just kids running on the streets, playing on the streets, following football.

15:13Khabib NurmagomedovLet's say playing on PlayStation. There is no system. There is no selection process where kids can go and show themselves. So they can be noticed and get signed. I think Brazil and other countries, and of course Europe, they have it. So, yeah, we have big problems with football. However, in our sports, where you can wrestle, where you can fight, in that sense we have a system. For example, the gyms in Makashkala, let's say for combat sports. I'm not even counting leg.

15:44Khabib Nurmagomedovfreestyle, wrestling or other styles. There may be 40 or 50 gyms for combat sports and all are full. If you win in Dagestan, you move on to the North Caucasus level, then to the Russia Nationals. If you're champion of Russia, you go to the Worlds. In amateurs, they notice you and you make a name for yourself. There is a certain ladder here. But in many other sports here in Dagestan, we don't have such a well-structured ladder for people to climb. Can we look at this philosophically again?

16:14Lex FridmanI mean, you've seen so many wrestlers, fighters, why exactly were these gyms creating so many champions? I'm just honestly curious, because it's rare in any sport, one gym or a small number of gyms creating so many champions. Well, first important factor is the competition level is incredibly high. You come to the gym and in every spot, you have good wrestlers, 10 or 15 guys right there, and the coaches are great. You know?

16:47Khabib NurmagomedovIt so happened that my father broke through in the media. And then I became a champion. And the other guys became champions too. And my father's philosophy, it really resonated. And he became known for it. But there are coaches in Dagestan that not many people know about. They are known locally, but they are very good. And actually they have the knowledge, they have the approach, they have the philosophy.

17:17Khabib NurmagomedovThey could also be at the same level as my father was. I believe there are really quite a few of them. In terms of the coaching, I think Dagestan was extremely lucky. It probably goes back to the 1950s. When wrestling really took off here, starting with Ali Aliyev, our legendary wrestler, a 5-time world champion who went to the Olympics 3 times. That's where it started, with his generation. There was Zagalov, Abdulbekov, Ali Aliyev, those are the well-known names.

17:46Khabib Nurmagomedovi mean those guys are famous but there were so many other less known wrestlers who later on after they retired they all became great coaches themselves and these coaches they raised a very large number of guys who are really good at wrestling and then some of those coaches they kind of switched over to fighting let's say to grappling to MMA and they started coaching in combat sambo as well And it just kept going like this, you know, it was moving forward step by step. And so we have a huge number of really great coaches. I believe this is one of the single most important keys to the success of Dagestani wrestlers and fighters, the coaching staff of Dagestan. Is it more about technique or is it really just about serious, incredibly hard work? Well, you have to look at the traditions because generally it's just the way it is in Dagestan.

18:43Khabib NurmagomedovEveryone wrestles, everyone fights, it's part of our culture. You know yourself, fighting is like 50% wrestling. Every parent wants their children to wrestle to be physically strong. Our approach to kids is that a child must be strong, they must be able to stand up for themselves, for their family. It's something that has traditionally always been in every single one of our clans, every family, every village.

19:12Lex FridmanIt's just in our blood. I mean, it's worth pointing out, and you've actually written about this, that this isn't just a recent thing. It's been going on for hundreds of years. Yes, that's right. These lands, Dagestan specifically, have seen powerful armies sweep through time and time again. Because of that, people here have always had to fight to survive. Refusing to back down, refusing to give up their land or lose their identity. Their homes, their villages, yeah.

19:42Khabib Nurmagomedovtheir families and land. If we look back a thousand years in history, maybe 1500 years, there was the Khazar Khaganate, the Arabic Caliphate, then the Iranian Empire or the Persian Empire, I should say. Then the Russian Empire, Timur passed through there the Mongols. And if we look at the geographical location of Dagestan, For those who don't know, the Caucasus Range runs across the whole region like a wall. And then it slopes down right where the Caspian lowlands are. So you've got the sea on the right, the mountains on the left, and the Caspian lowlands right here. And there was a city there that's still standing today. It's one of the oldest cities in the world, not just in Russia. It's Derbent. It used to be called Babul Abwab.

20:39Khabib NurmagomedovIt means the gate of gates very major trade routes went through there very large armies passed through and It was bound to leave a mark on the people We have so many languages more than 30 different languages and people just don't understand each other Take Islam and me we have different languages come from different backgrounds Islam is lag and I'm our when we talk. It's not like it's a dialect. We don't understand each other at all But since Islam has been with us for nearly 25 years, he actually picked up some hour over time. But anyway, the deep history of the region, it all left its mark. It created many different languages and traditions. Basically, of course, Islam is our primary religion, but Dagestan has actually absorbed a lot of cultures and faiths, even our food culture.

21:38Khabib NurmagomedovIt is incredibly rich. We have European and Asian and Caucasian, our own unique cuisine. So, on the people, on the people themselves, the last 1500 years of history have left a huge mark. If you're into history and you start reading about Dagestan, I think you'll get completely immersed and be amazed by what a unique place it is. So, all of this left a huge mark. Look at the terrain.

22:07Khabib NurmagomedovIt's a coastal plain, and then the mountains rise up. For instance, take someone like Timur. When he passed through with a huge army, he stayed in the Dagestan lowlands but never went up into the mountains. Why? Because you've got hundreds of thousands of troops, soldiers traveling with horses and supplies, if they had started going up into the mountains where it's cold and there are no roads, it would've been too tough for them.

22:34Khabib NurmagomedovSo, the Highlanders somehow managed to stay independent. But the lowlands, the Caspian lowlands of Dagestan, they kept changing hands. Massive empires would roll in and all of that left a mark on the people. The Gate of the Gates Babul Abwab. Historians wrote about it say a thousand or fifteen hundred years ago great historians from various countries. People have written so much about Dagestan.

23:03Khabib NurmagomedovIt went by different names back then, but they wrote a ton about this exact region. Many people, many empires invaded our land. So do you feel that inside you, in your blood, your heart, like all of this history? Well, in the past it's not like I really felt it, I knew Dagestan's history, but maybe with time you start to see it in a whole new light. Every year you change a bit.

23:31Khabib Nurmagomedovon a mental and psychological level. Now I understand, I really do. You cannot just be born physically and mentally strong. Your environment shapes you no matter what, where you grew up, how you grew up, the conditions and who you had around you. And after all, genetics are also a part of who you are. So when you add all this up, yeah.

23:59Lex FridmanI just feel like all of this has come together inside me. It's interesting because in sports, we know many of the names of the great fighters and wrestlers. Yet when it comes to war, there are so many people who fought, heroes, truly great warriors. Some we know by name, but most of them will never actually know and will never know. You write about Imam Shamil.

24:28Khabib Nurmagomedovthat he's an important figure for this region and a hero as well. Well, Imam Shamil, he was known for resisting an empire as huge as Russia. Dagestan is so small and he had so few people with him. How did he get famous? He got famous because he held out for very long time. He didn't just resist for a couple of years. He was like a regular fighter, let's say a soldier for 10 years. And then when he became the leader, he went on for another 25 years. So 35 years of his conscious life he spent fighting not just some random empire but what was then if not the most powerful definitely one of the strongest empires of that era. And that is what made him famous. And so there are villages in Dagestan that deeply honor the memory of particular warriors who came from their villages.

25:28Khabib NurmagomedovFrom the clan from the ethnic group, but in well World history they're barely known Like take Shamil. He's a leader, right? So everybody knows him but there are plenty of heroes who been forgotten But yeah, their own people remember villages hold on to history Plus we have to admit that conditions in the mountains are incredibly harsh. That's part of it, too Just surviving up there is a real struggle See back then people in the mountains worked all through the summer just to survive the winter because winters are harsh with heavy snow completely cutting off villages people just stay inside and try to outlast it and In the summer they work terrace farming was a huge thing for us Our terraces are among the most you could say famous and ancient in the world. They're known as the chalk

26:25Khabib Nurmagomedovterraces. Now those are the famous ones. But every village had terraces. There's a place out there called Maritl, right across from our village. People worked over there, but here in the village is where they lived. I mean, you think, why didn't they just build a village right there, in the place where we grow all our food? Because enemies could easily ride in on horseback.

26:49Khabib NurmagomedovAn army could easily get to you there, so they'd build a village in rugged terrain, somewhere tough to invade. For instance, our village is Sildi. It's from the word sea, which is like a castle or a fortress or a tower. They built it that way, so an army couldn't reach them. You'd have to hike down one mountain and then climb up a whole different mountain. And right there, they'd plant things like grain, potatoes, basically, you know, all their food.

27:18Khabib NurmagomedovSee if we had built over there if we leave there and grew our crops in the same place since it's all terrorist land and army could just walk right up launch raids and so on back in the day That's how people lived and so all of this took a toll on people physically psychologically and mentally and Honestly, well, you just can't be born in these conditions leave here stay here and be mentally weak You just have to be tough. There's no other way to survive. So you just built a sports complex there. Yeah. Pretty legendary, you know. Could you talk about that? Yes, that was my father's whole plan. He really wanted it way up in the mountains. First, it's great for the fighters. Right now, I just flew out here to Las Vegas. We're sitting here, like, doing this podcast together. But I came out here for Umar's fight. And I should say...

28:16Khabib NurmagomedovUmar did his main training there, at the new base in Sildi. He spent almost a month at that place. And because it's 15 to 1600 meters above sea level, man, it's tough to train there. And uh...

28:34Khabib NurmagomedovAnd the thing is, when you spend about three to four weeks there, you just have more oxygen in your blood, you have more testosterone, you improve physically, you know, your stamina builds up and so on. And this base was sort of my father's dream. He started building it back in 2016, 2017. Money was tight back then. It was really hard, but we built it little by little.

29:02Khabib NurmagomedovIn 2020 my father passed away but I kept the project going just a little differently on a bigger scale. Right now the base is open and a hundred people can be there at the same time. Training, eating, sleeping and our guys hold their training camps up there. So this was sort of my father's dream that I have pretty much brought to life. It's a powerful story.

29:35Khabib Nurmagomedovto return to the place where you were born up in the mountains, in order to build a sports complex where champions train. Makachkala gym is a great place, but the mountains are special. Mountains are mountains. Your home village, no matter what, on some sort of deeper level, somehow gives you that. You know, like Americans love to say positive energy, not everything has to be done for money. And you know, you shouldn't just look for profit in everything, let's say, financially. There are certain things that don't bring me anything at all except for expenses. But I still do all of it because it brings me a lot of happiness and meaning. First of all, it creates a lot of jobs. People can work and earn a living. Second, it's because my father really wanted this. Third, let's say...

30:32Khabib NurmagomedovThe guys can train and improve up there both physically and spiritually. There are just so many benefits there. I don't know if it's okay to ask something like this, but I would dream of coming out there to Dagestan and not just to Mahachkala but to Sildi. Is that even possible for me? I think we could film a really good story out there. I'm not sure about a podcast, but I'm sure we could shoot a really nice vlog there. So...

31:03Khabib NurmagomedovCan you tell me a bit about the journey from Mahachkala all the way to Sildi? Four hours, well, 3.40. Through the mountains? Yeah, 3.30, 3.40 through the mountains. The road is a real winding one. Not an easy ride. If it gets to be too hard for you, we can just take a helicopter. It's no problem at all. Like 40 to 50 minutes from Mahachkala to Sildi. Otherwise, keeping it more down to earth, we go by car. So there's absolutely no problem. I could never get used to a wealthy life. It's just...

31:31Lex FridmanIt's not in my blood to be like that. Alright, then we'll go buy a car. Yeah, we could go on horseback, but a car is better. No, no, a buy a car is better on horseback. It takes way too long. So you mentioned money, and we were just talking about comfort because right now there are so many champions. They win so much, things are going so well. How much harder is it to stay a champion when the money and the fame start coming in, when all that stuff starts showing up? Well,

32:03Khabib NurmagomedovThose are all distracting things. When you become a champion, there's a massive amount of attention on you. Sometimes it's contracts, sometimes you end up having to fly a lot, you start getting busy with things, and little by little you begin to miss your workouts. You miss one, you miss two, you miss three. And all of that takes a toll. And the person who used to train with such a drive, with a hunger to be the best, as soon as they actually become the best, they just don't know what to do next.

32:34Khabib Nurmagomedovand they live their whole life just to become stay on the top. As soon as they get there, what are they supposed to do? That's it. They already made it, they've reached their goal and there are just so many distracting factors. Money, flights, you know, meetings, contracts, video shoots. There are just so many distracting factors. And so, if a person doesn't know how to handle all of this, Then that person comes down from the top real fast and I'm saying this based on my own experience from what I've seen all around me with the ones who came before me and Back then when I was training with my father his students who? went on to become world champions just how they finish their careers and so on and it's what I saw from From my own observations of other types of sports how they came back down as far as I've learned

33:36Khabib NurmagomedovThis is a very delicate moment. If a person climbing all the way to the top, if they can handle all of that, that already shows they have an incredibly serious mindset. Reaching the championship and staying there, reaching it is one thing, but staying a champion, that's totally different. It's incredibly tough. You're saying that even on a local level, once you become a champion, that's already the tough moment because a lot of people

34:06Lex Fridmanwho start winning, like you said, they stop fighting, they quit doing MMA and switch over to fitness, they find themselves that comfort. But holding onto it is hard, even on a local level. Every single time you become more and more of a champion, you won the Sambo Championship, you keep winning more and more and every time it gets harder. Yes.

34:32Khabib NurmagomedovAnd it depends on the person's goals. If you want to become an amateur champion just to prove something to yourself, that's one thing. But if you view amateur sports as a springboard to jump right into professional sports and become a champion among professionals, that's a whole different thing. There are different paths. First, you build an amateur career just to get into the pros and go even further from there. Second, After you've made it into the pros, you become a champion. And third, after you become a champion, you have to stay there. Not everyone has what it takes. It is incredibly tough. If you look at the numbers, you can literally count these champions on one hand. How many of them are there? Maybe 15, 20, 30 people? Let's say 50 over the last 30 years. And how many have tried? For example, 50 achieved it over 30 years.

35:27Khabib NurmagomedovOver 35 years of MMA combat sports, but how many tried hundreds of thousands and look at that number such a tiny amount actually reach the end goal So for you to actually make it into this tiny list you really have to be like just a truly unique Person and a fighter and and you know a student and a person who can accept guidance from a coach who when they are being guided discard the cones and take only the pros. But there are people who take criticism very hard and very negatively and are very sensitive let's say when they take criticism from a mentor. So it all has to click and some accept criticism at the very beginning but then once they become champions it's hard for them to take it. It happens differently.

36:25Khabib NurmagomedovA man sometimes doesn't even know what he is capable of. Sometimes he just can't really understand himself until he achieves success or becomes famous, wealthy and powerful. That is exactly when he discovers his true qualities. When he is limited in something, in money, in power, in everything that success eventually brings him, he doesn't really know how he's going to act.

36:56Khabib NurmagomedovIn this new role doesn't know how he'll behave once he becomes big famous and a champion Nobody knows some people say and wish oh if only I'd made it like that I would do things this way I think it's better if people don't throw around such big words Because you never know how you'll carry yourself once you actually get there You know, it's such a delicate thing getting up there

37:24Lex Fridmanand still remain inhuman. When it comes to you, I see that everyone here just loves you. Even early on in your career, millions of people loved you. That is also a tough thing to deal with because maybe you start believing it. Yeah, and you can lose yourself in all of it. So is it all in the mind? I mean, what actually goes on in a champion's head in yours when you sat alone thinking about your life?

37:56Khabib NurmagomedovWho am I really and what do I do to keep being a champion or to become one? Well, first of all from the very beginning if you realize that what you're chasing isn't the most important thing in life then it gets easier for you and then you know there are some people whose let's say ultimate goal is to be successful powerful and to make it big at the end of the day after all we are not really such big important people and like I believe it's wrong to just crown yourself king because if we put it to put it bluntly if we're being honest here we can't even control the basic need to go to the restroom maybe to some yeah to some people this will probably seem a bit crude

38:58Khabib Nurmagomedovbut we all go to the restroom excuse my language if we can't control even this so what can we actually control in this life look how many people we know how many great people have left this earth it doesn't really matter how like big strong or famous you are how wealthy you are champion or no champion either way they put us all in the exact same grave you know two meters down or like a meter or a meter and a half different confessions, different religions, they bury people in different ways. So I actually believe that every single person should have this realization that we are just not some kind of big important people here who just decide and get to control everything. We don't get to do that. In my case, I was raised under the guidance of my father. My father was a coach and my goal was always to become

39:58Khabib Nurmagomedovto prove to my father that out of everyone, even though he trains many other people, he trains everyone. I mean, I'm also here. I can show him he doesn't have to look very far. I'm right there and under his guidance, I can become a champion. I looked up to him and followed his example. Trained hard and it was like, you know, a kind of a challenge to prove to him that look I am right here father and everything you teach I will take it all in zealously, worthily. I'll follow your program, do it right and I will become a champion and that was exactly the kind of goal I had to prove it first and foremost to my father and secondly to the entire world that I can become the best wrestler or fighter. But I never thought of being crowned king.

40:54Khabib NurmagomedovAfter I became a champion I was never going to walk around like look how cool I am that was never in my head and I'm really glad that the Almighty Protected me from all of that because many people end up in a bad place if they act like that This is a profound wisdom not thinking about being crowned But even if you don't a fire should burn within you driving you to become a champion, right?

41:21Khabib NurmagomedovAs you said, hundreds of thousands, millions of people want to be a champion, but only one can be. Yeah, but that is actually about you confronting your opponent. You've got to put a barrier inside your mind, where on one side you're a humble person, but on the other side you're different because you have a goal, your goal. Of course, you should still follow a code of honor.

41:46Khabib Nurmagomedovyou should be a man a righteous man and know what you can and cannot do you should always do that but in the end your opponent is the person who wants to stop your dream so here the boundaries expand just a little bit right here you're already not playing humble right here you just step out and you want to clear your opponent out of your way and that's it because your goal is to be the best in the world and they are blocking you Excuse me, but in this situation, there's no way you can act all humble. Okay. But when you were training in the gym, what was it that gave you this strength? A hatred of losing? Or a love for winning? I think it was the hatred of losing. Yes, definitely. I mean, you know, of course you want to win, but for me, there was always this driver, like, no way. I am not losing, you know.

42:49Khabib NurmagomedovWhen they would give me a fight. I always tell this to my guys whenever they would give me a fight on a professional level a hundred days before it I was how do you say it addiction I Was fixated like when people have this addiction, but for me it was commitment that I absolutely had to prepare perfectly for the fight I couldn't miss any training sessions. I would literally have like this panic like For example, I'd fly somewhere and I have, let's say, 85 days left until the fight. Like I knew that I had to fly. For example, if I was flying to Moscow, I would always pick a ticket so I could absolutely do my morning training session first. Then I'd take off around lunchtime. And once I arrived in Moscow for whatever reason, I had to fit it all around my training schedule.

43:45Khabib NurmagomedovEither I had to meet up before my training sessions or I had to meet up after my training sessions and I simply could not miss that evening training session because I had to train during the day from four to five hours to in the morning and two to two and a half in the evening and I needed to I would prepare myself that way looking at who was in Moscow right then wondering who I could like Pull into a training session there. Well, they also had to the person had to match my level as well Not just like I showed up there, played around with him, I needed a fight back. I would arrange in advance who was gonna come. Maybe some sparring, maybe I do wrestling, maybe I'd hit the weights, maybe a striking workout. So I had this, let's say I always had this tough and scientific approach to it. So I believe that more than anything I didn't want to lose rather than I wanted to win.

44:43Lex FridmanOf course, winning is also a huge pleasure, but more than anything, I just didn't want to lose. So in all those hard training sessions, you were thinking about not losing. That's the fuel. The fuel. Four to five hours every single day. Every day. There is a story that I heard. Satelayev, the legendary wrestler, told a story that he went to a hotel, I think it was in Moscow, to train in the gym. And he was the only...

45:09Lex FridmanIt was during the night. I don't know. He was the only one who was there and you came down Yeah, and you actually trained together and and he said he he said a lot of great things about you. He said that you gave him some really deep wisdom which helped him to win the gold medal at the Olympic Games I'm curious. Could you tell us now what you told him? What kind of wisdom did you give him? I can't remember exactly, but we had really great conversations

45:40Khabib NurmagomedovIt's a great story that the two of you, like, two legends like that just met completely by chance. Well, look, he's a two-time Olympic champion, right? Right. I think he doesn't skip his training either. He never missed one back then. I believe that we both ended up there because we both, you know, hate to lose and we, we both really want to win. And, you know, recently I came across this idea. There are athletes who simply want to win.

46:09Khabib NurmagomedovAnd then, there are some for whom victory isn't enough. They want domination. I believe that he is one of those as well. They want domination. And for that, what does a person have to do? They have to train. They have to grind morning and night. And there was this thing with us. After the morning, my father never let us sleep. When I say the morning, I mean after Fajr, they don't prayer. He just wouldn't sleep himself, so we couldn't either.

46:40Khabib NurmagomedovSo every morning, six, seven, we'd be out doing a warm-up. Some people might call it a warm-up, but when you show up at the stadium in the morning, you run five kilometers, you do sprints, you work with resistance bands, you work on the pull-up bar, you do push-ups, dips, jumps, you know. The bands then work with the partner, drilling and so on. That's about two hours of work. You drop two, two and a half kilos there, not really a warm-up.

47:10Khabib NurmagomedovBut father always called it that, right? That was a full morning training at 7 am. Then I came home to rest and at 4 o'clock we'd head to the gym. The training would start at 5 o'clock and end at 7. By 8 I'd be home and by 11 I'd rest up. And yet I kept thinking that something was missing. Like I know that I have a start, a competition coming up.

47:38Khabib Nurmagomedovin like 40 or 30 days and I would wake up and I'd be like let me go to the sea I'm gonna go down to the sea do some running some sprints on the sand work out and so on and so many times I ended up going out for a third training session as well sometimes father would say rest in the morning we're gonna have a heavy workload but sometimes I wouldn't tell father I just go out at night head out and train at night when everyone's asleep when nobody's around I'd grab one of my close friends, give them a call, have them pick me up, then hop in the car and head to DC. I'd train for an hour or an hour and a half, come back and crash. Next morning, I'd get up and start all over again. And just this routine, non-stop. And when I see guys, you know when they do just one training session or like they say, on Wednesday we have a morning training, then an evening sauna session. What do you mean? You have to fight in 50 days.

48:36Khabib NurmagomedovYou have a huge fight ahead and you want to take a rest in the middle of the week? Well, rest on Sunday. On Saturday, do a morning training, hit the sauna in the evening, take a complete rest on Sunday and start all over again on Monday. That was just my approach. Everyone does it differently. I don't know, I just think it has to be in your head. You've got to want it incredibly badly. So you believe that to be a champion, you have to train like that, you have to be that serious for the majority of people?

49:07Khabib NurmagomedovLet's say, I believe that to be at the top, they top tier, right? One of the best in the world. A person has to always be, you know, a little bit, let's say just a little bit crazy, but in a good sense of the word. You have to be addicted to it and to want this incredibly bad. You have to take a fanatical approach to the training process. Just showing up and working out.

49:37Khabib NurmagomedovThat's what hundreds of thousands of guys are doing around the world. To stand out from that, from this crowd, let's say, who have the exact same goals as you do. To stand out from that, you have to take a fanatical approach to it. Well, look, I'm training with John Danaher. And they train like that too. They train three times a day. And it actually feels right this way. I mean, of course, this is how you have to train. Because of that, John has one of the best.

50:06Khabib NurmagomedovYeah, he makes champions. Students in the world. And after all, they don't just take some random place. I mean, they're not somewhere in the middle. They're at the top and look at their whole approach. Some people, look, a person with that kind of approach just can't be somewhere in the middle. It's impossible. If you have a fanatical attitude, the right attitude toward the training process, on top of that, you have to be fanatical about it. You love what you do. And in the end, There will be results. Well, just look at John and look where his guys are. He creates champions. He finds a champion in everyone, across every category, right? He makes, he creates champions. Not just one or two, but all of them. He finds a champion in everyone, across every category. Look, the people who come to him, he has a system, let's say, right? Under this roof, under his roof, there is a system. People come here,

51:10Khabib Nurmagomedovand they become champions in this system. So, there are people there who are champions. These are specific established names. And there are other people who came and left. They entered that black room, so to say, an uncomfortable place. They went in, stood for a year, a year and a half or two and left. Nobody talks about them. These are the people who came in, broke mentally and left. And there aren't just a few of them.

51:41Khabib NurmagomedovThere are a lot. Usually, most people give up. There are many who give up. But then, there are the ones who come in and stay there for a long time. Long, long time. And after some time, they achieve success. They become the best. They prove to themselves that once they enter the system, they could stay there for a long time, endure and become the best. They prove that they are already capable of many things.

52:10Khabib NurmagomedovThey can be trusted to supervise big important projects. I would even say, for example, 2000 years ago, they could easily rule entire cities. So a person who has gone through it physically, who has lived through it, who has faced challenges, passed the tests, they are capable of a lot, highly capable. You don't just walk into martial arts and become the best. It's very difficult.

52:40Khabib NurmagomedovIt means that you go through pain, you make sacrifices, you give your time, you face setbacks and failures in training. The mental strength and capacity mean a lot there. And when I talk about his system, look, I mean those schools that became the best, let's say in football or in freestyle wrestling or let's say in MMA, in grappling or in judo, it's really hard.

53:08Khabib Nurmagomedovto enter one of the best schools in the world, to stay when they are breaking you, throwing you, choking you, to improve as a person and as an athlete and to become a champion. It takes at least 12 years, 10 to 12 years, maybe 15, for some it took longer. And to get through the grind for these 15 years and then to break through and become the best is worth a lot.

53:36Lex FridmanHave you had those tough moments where you're almost broken psychologically? You know just sitting there finding it hard to breathe and everything is going wrong lost in some situations and When you were young was there ever a moment like that? Because the guys from Dagestan on the team Really great guys by the way. I'll say they've never seen you broken and training not even losing really

54:09Khabib NurmagomedovBut when you were young, did it ever happen? Look, I've been in this grind since I was a kid. Wherever my father coached, there were always, let's take the year 2004, for example. My father put together the Dagestan National Team for Combat Sambo and in mixed martial arts, which was called no holds barred fighting. They were training camps too. I was 15. It was the winter of 2004.

54:38Khabib NurmagomedovAnd I was the youngest guy there. The others were, let's say, between 22 and 30. All active world champions. At that time, I was like 14-15 years old. I wrestled with them, grappled, was in this uncomfortable environment for myself. Where we always had the rule that the youngest has to do everything and he is always wrong. And I had to deal with that.

55:08Khabib NurmagomedovEspecially in the gym, they throw you, hit you again and again. You have to show up morning and evening, day after day. This place hardens you. They say, how the steel was tempered. Steel isn't tempered for nothing. How many times do you have to strike the steel before it becomes a sword? That doesn't just happen by itself. Did you believe in yourself then? Some of the guys who were at those camps back then, they're grown men now.

55:37Khabib NurmagomedovEven then, they were older than me by 10, 12, maybe 15 years. And they always used to say Habib. We honestly thought you were going to become some kind of scholar or scientist. Because my father was always making me read and write, read and write. I would copy out entire books by hand. There was always this control. It wasn't like he'd say, Habib, go do this.

56:06Khabib Nurmagomedovand you could just walk away and not do it. When he said, go do it, you did it. My father never forgot anything. He had a phenomenal memory. He'd be like, did you do it? And everything he told you he remembered, he just did. He checked you. He was like, come here. And he'd check. I knew it wasn't something I could get away with. So, you know, since childhood I was lucky that my father always kept me close and I...

56:33Khabib NurmagomedovFound myself in this environment among fighters who at that time Well, I don't know they just didn't compete in America and Europe back then but in the post-soviet space they were the best at that time and It helped me a lot to become mentally strong Tell me more about your father You've read a lot You didn't just fight you were well-rounded and you told several stories about this. There's a book

57:05Lex FridmanWhat is it called? Countries and peoples. Yes, from my childhood. It is really. Yes. And it went on. The approach was the same. Tell that story because I think it's important for the parents listening to us to understand this. You're not just trying to create a champion. You're trying to raise a well-rounded person, a wise person, a person with depth. Yes, you have to give the right motivation to kids with proper communication.

57:34Khabib NurmagomedovMy father was very good at this. I now realize, interacting with my own kids, how wise he was and how deeply he understood this. Because when a child is 8, 10 years old and when they are just beginning to form as a person, it is important to have the right approach. I now understand how far-sighted my father's approach was. First, he tried not to give me anything for free, only...

58:03Khabib NurmagomedovSometimes I could get something for free, for example, before a holiday. Like, Eid al-Fitr, or before school started. Father would give money, I'd go buy clothes at the market for back to school, that kind of thing, you know? And at other times he always told me, well, if you want it, you need to earn it. You want me to give you money just like that? There would be some work around the house and so on that I had to do.

58:30Khabib NurmagomedovAnd I knew that encouragement would always be there. My father always had this kind of approach. He set a very strong personal example, very strong. And I really learned a lot from him. Took a lot. And then, as you mentioned, there was the book Countries and Peoples. Someone gave it to him as a gift. My father read through it and he realized that it was perfect for me. For a child who was 10.

58:59Khabib Nurmagomedov11, maybe 12 at the time. That book was part of my life for about two or three years. Something like that. It was about 193 countries. The geography, history, all the details. For each country, it describes its geographical location, which countries it bordered, its major rivers, mountains, cities, history, economy, finances. Just brief information about every country. My father said, You'll tell me about each country and I'll give you money for it. And I thought, alright, I knew this was like my own little capital. Just sitting there waiting for me. All I had to do was come, take that book, read it, understand it. Then my father would take the book and say, now tell me what you read. And he would check. He would look through it. The countries were arranged alphabetically.

59:55Khabib NurmagomedovA for Andorra, Angola and so on. B for Belgium, Brazil and so on. Everything went in alphabetical order. I started from A and read them all straight to the very end. Like every single time when I needed the money, I did that. And for example, I go over the first 40 countries, he check a box and then I continued. That's how my father would test me. Let's just say that my knowledge of geography comes from back then. Did you realize how big the world was? No, as a child you don't understand. At that time I didn't understand, but since then I've had this desire to travel. I really wanted to travel, visit different countries, see wonders of the world, the Coliseum, the pyramids. But all of this is from childhood, from what I read and wrote.

1:00:54Khabib NurmagomedovIt wasn't just about reading, I also had to rewrite it. I had to write it down. I always wrote down what I read. And actually, this is very good advice for parents, you know. They can use this for their children too. They can tell them to sit down and copy books by hand. First of all, eyesight improves, reading improves, writing how you write improves.

1:01:25Khabib Nurmagomedovyour handwriting, and it stays with you when you read and write. It really develops a child. Not only I believe that, I actually do advise parents to motivate their kids this way. You can simply create some kind of challenge that children benefit from and reward them for it after it is done. This really helps develop a child's mind.

1:01:55Lex FridmanI actually saw advice from the great writers who said they remembered doing the same thing when they were young. When they first started writing, they just simply copied other legendary writers. You read their work and then you type it out yourself. And you start absorbing that style into your bloodstream. Well, it needs to be done in childhood. Sure.

1:02:22Khabib NurmagomedovWhen the child is ready to learn and his mind is open, let's say as a metaphor, when his table is clean, not occupied with clutter, then as a father, you can help them place all the right things on the table in their proper place. Let's say, put the food in one place, flowers in another, something like that. It is important. That's why I believe I was very lucky.

1:02:53Khabib NurmagomedovMy father did the right thing. He provided me with the right kind of information. And I learned a lot just from being around him. I learned so much just from his presence. He was there at home. And then we also went to competitions. He was always there at trainings and at camps. So I absorbed a lot from him. And it was interesting for me too. Of course.

1:03:23Lex FridmanWhen you're a teenager sometimes you're tired, sometimes you want to break free. All of that was there. But my father had the right approach. He influenced me a lot and in the right way. And there's the physical component too of hard work. There's a story you told about the time he made you dig a big hole just because it was difficult. There's wisdom in that.

1:03:51Khabib Nurmagomedovthat you just need to work, you need to stay busy all the time. These were training camps from 2005 to 2007. In the summer, we went to the mountains. There was a children's camp there, an old Soviet-style pioneer camp where we stayed doing our runs in the forest. Together, we built a small training area there with a rope, a punching bag, a pull-up bar. We did sprints there, we pulled resistance bands. After running in the mountains, we would come back and work there.

1:04:21Khabib NurmagomedovThere were almost no mats. We built the base ourselves. It had a dining room on the first floor and then attic space where we slept. We would come downstairs, eat, go outside, train in that little sports area, then run in the forest. It was somewhere around 1200 meters above sea level, a carnivore forest. We spent the whole summer there. There with train in the morning, then there was nothing to do all day.

1:04:49Khabib NurmagomedovAnd in the evening we had training sessions again. But during the day, so we wouldn't be busy with unnecessary things, my father sometimes gave us work. And we'd ask, why are we digging this pit? He'd say, well, people used to use it like a refrigerator. When you dig two or three meters down, it is cold inside. You can put milk there, cheese, things like that, so the food does not go bad. And we were like, okay.

1:05:16Khabib NurmagomedovBut do we really need these refrigerators every day? So in that sense, this was his approach back then. He always had this kind of unique approach. Well, what's the philosophy here? That you gotta be busy all the time. Working hard, doing something difficult. Yes, it's very dangerous to give a child free time in adolescence. They should always be busy. Learning new information, improving, acquiring new skills. A person should always be busy.

1:05:45Khabib NurmagomedovWhen you're 16, well, what can be on your mind? You should constantly develop and improve. And by this time, you should already, I believe, have decided what you want to become. You should already be investing in what you want to turn into. By the way, you had several very good conversations with Nuralon, with Adam, which I highly recommend. And one of them, your brother Abu Bakr told a story that When you were young, there were several street fights, maybe many, I don't know. He said he was the one who got you into it. You were kind of bigger and he needed protection at that time. You were that protection. Can you tell us these stories? How often did you fight on the streets of Dagestan? Well, let's start with the fact that I never bullied anyone. Never. Although I physically could bully, yes, let's say I had the capability.

1:06:45Khabib NurmagomedovI wasn't the kind of person who started the fights. You didn't start? I didn't. Well, tried to finish. Well, maybe there were some moments. But mostly, no. Mostly I didn't start. Abu Bakr, sure. He was like that. In my circle, I had some guys who were a little bit like that. He said that he was a troublemaker. Yes, yes. He was a troublemaker. And because of him, I got into trouble many times.

1:07:16Khabib Nurmagomedovwhen you're let's say 14 15 years old and your brother is fighting you don't really ask who's right or who's wrong you just go in you start to as we say you interfere you just have to go in right but when you're older more conscious when you're 20 25 or 30 years old this is when you really start telling him You know Abu Bakar. I think you're wrong here Yes, we'll finish this right now, but in the future I wouldn't want you to get involved because I think it's wrong, right? Well as kids we just didn't ask we just went right in when we moved to Makachkala in the 1999 let's say the end of 1999 So they were we were many brothers More than ten of us. We lived in one house. Some were in school some in college some in university

1:08:16Khabib NurmagomedovBut we all had one routine. We trained in the morning, then went to school. We'd come home, rest, do homework, then train in the evening, come home, and rest. Without mothers, just by ourselves. Father gathered everyone. He took in close friends and family, his nephews, cousins, relatives, those who didn't have a father, and so on. He took them in. And we all lived in one house. We cooked, cleaned, did laundry all by ourselves.

1:08:44Khabib NurmagomedovIt was like, well, some kind of army life, you know. And when the brothers had some problems, let's say misunderstandings. We didn't go easy on those guys. And even those who lived around there near that house, in that district, in the settlement, everyone knew that there were lots of brothers living there. So they had to be careful. And we had a football field there.

1:09:15Khabib NurmagomedovIt was right in front of the house. And everyone who came to play there, we constantly had fights there, misunderstandings. They were older brothers. They were always watching us, keeping us from trouble. Don't do this, don't do that, watch your mouth. But we had our own little group. The age difference between us was maybe 2-3 years. There were 5 or 6 of us.

1:09:43Khabib Nurmagomedovwe'd always go outside and play football if our team was losing and the game would just turn into a whole different sport and that's how we were growing up we spent six seven years there almost 10 years we were living together growing training a lot has happened over that time but i was never well maybe just a couple of times okay

1:10:13Lex FridmanMostly, I was never the initiator of fights. With some exceptions, I just remember since childhood my father always told me, you don't need to use force on the street. My father looked at all of this in a completely different way. What is your understanding of the difference between the street fight and sports? There is a very big difference. I saw many fights where

1:10:45Khabib NurmagomedovIf you put those same guys into sparring, in wrestling, MMA or combat sambo, one guy could beat the other very easily, but the street is completely different. There are no rules, no referees, no points. You just fight there. And it's totally different. I can't say I actually had a major turning point in my life. Let's say they want that In terms of psychology, really changed my whole attitude towards MMA. Back in 2002, 2003, my father kept me in wrestling. He trained MMA, combat Sambo, but wanted me to stay in wrestling. My cousin, who was older than me by a couple of months, he was training with my father. His freestyle wrestling was weak, so my father sent him to me, to the place where I was training.

1:11:49Khabib NurmagomedovIt was called the school of higher sports mastery, the local guys from the city know this place. He came to practice and got into it with a guy in our gym who was heavier, maybe one class heavier. This guy was the best in his weight, winning Dagestan and the city too. So they got into a conflict, they were arguing. My brother had just joined, he was new to Our freestyle wrestling gym, right? But I knew the other guy well. They paired up and they got into it. Well, that's my brother, right? So the guy goes, let's meet up after and they agreed as we say to step outside after the training. I remember it was raining heavily. A real downpour. The guy brought his brother. I came with mine. We went outside and they started fighting.

1:12:52Khabib NurmagomedovOne on one. I remember he shot in, lifted and took him down. Abdulrahman, my brother threw up a triangle and he choked him out. When we went out, I was thinking Abdulrahman will lose to this guy. I even visualized it happening. The whole thing, like this guy beats him and then I start fighting. Well, I'm not going there for my brother to lose. In my head, I was getting into a fight.

1:13:24Khabib NurmagomedovBut he threw him locked up in a triangle for the first time I saw with my own eyes how someone chokes another person with a triangle and they lose consciousness They fought he put him to sleep We had to pull them apart me and other guys Fights over Abdul Rahman one and on the way home. I'm like Abdul Rahman Wow You impressed me I came home and immediately told my father I said That was in 2002 or 2003, if I'm not mistaken. I am 14 years old. I said I'm switching to combat Sambo. I said what Abdulrahman did, the one he choked out is not just anyone in the gym. He's one of the best wrestlers, but he couldn't do anything. My father said, you'll go to wrestling, but you'll come to me. I'll teach you. You'll learn techniques here and so on. But I want you to gain wrestling skills.

1:14:28Khabib NurmagomedovI started going three days to train with my father, three days to wrestling. And at that moment, I realized that no matter how strong the wrestler is, lying on the back is where the wrestling normally ends, but MMA only begins there. And I was like, I thought, I need this, I need this mixed style. I realized this was for me. I started going to my father's trainings despite that he didn't let me.

1:14:57Khabib NurmagomedovHe didn't want me to do fighting. I think most people don't know this. My father wanted me to do freestyle wrestling or judo, but in my head I already had this mixed style. I always wanted to compete. I was already getting tapes to watch. I always wanted to compete where there are no rules, where I could fully use my skills. Maximum freedom. Yes, judo, Sambo, freestyle, grappling, jujitsu. More people knew jujitsu than grappling.

1:15:28Khabib NurmagomedovAfter that, I switched and from there, my journey slowly started, which I had already begun. That's when I started the amateur journey. Then, when I started getting good results, as an amateur, I realized that I can switch to pro and achieve success. Sambo in combat Sambo. Combat Sambo. I competed in all kinds of sports.

1:15:52Khabib NurmagomedovEverything that involves wrestling and fighting, I competed everywhere. I competed in freestyle, in judo, in grappling, in combat samba. I competed in sport samba, in hand-to-hand combat, in pancreation. My father put me in all competitions. He would say, you have a competition here and another one there. Now you are preparing for this one. You will compete in this weight under these rules in this sport.

1:16:19Khabib Nurmagomedovand he was sending me everywhere he would tell me you will need this in the future the more competition experience you have the more relaxed and confident you'll feel it builds up over time when I was young I was losing as well I go to a judo competition win two matches and lose two matches I would ask father why are you sending me there this is not my sport and he'd say no go and compete so okay I went I cut weight the next day you come in You see 50 competitors in your weight class. You let this weight, this competitive energy pass through you and psychologically you get better, better, better each time you become more relaxed about it. And this moment really affected me. Although then I didn't agree with my father. Back then I thought, why should I compete in other sports? He said, you can wrestle, right? Well, go wrestle.

1:17:17Khabib NurmagomedovI was saying, but judo isn't my sport. It's hard for me there. He says, well, you went on four times. Look, you won twice, then lost twice. You competed four times. You're 15 years old. You're just developing. Do you know how valuable this experience is for you? Four matches in one day. Now, when I'm coaching, I understand the psychological approach. How important it is.

1:17:46Khabib NurmagomedovI realize now how correctly he prepared me for the big stage. The preparation was already happening then, when I was 15 years old. For example, when I went into the biggest fight in combat sports history, when I fought in 2018 here in Las Vegas. At that point, I was already at my peak prime time. I was 30 years old.

1:18:15Khabib NurmagomedovI went through all possible competitions as an amateur and a professional. And you know what? I was ready. This preparation, it started back then, when I was 15. It's not like they give you a fight and you prepare for two months. Preparation starts long before you even step into the octagon. So this experience of competitions which started at 15, it continued.

1:18:44Khabib Nurmagomedovexpanded. Yeah, of course. So can you explain what was going on in your head? I didn't want to lose. I just didn't. It never occurred to me that I could get hurt. That someone could hurt me that I might break a finger somewhere. I never had that in my head that I could get hit that I'd get a scratch and so on. I don't know if you can call it perfectionism. I didn't want to lose. And to not lose?

1:19:14Khabib NurmagomedovI knew I needed to compete a lot and improve. Training is one thing, but competing is different. I understood that the more I competed, the more experience I would gain. I had to go through it. It was constantly on my mind. This understanding that I must compete a lot came to me at an early age, since I was 15, 16, 17, 18 and I never stopped thinking about it. So...

1:19:42Khabib NurmagomedovIt was always in the back of my mind. Were you confident that you would win? In my youth, no. Were you afraid to lose? Yeah, in my youth, I wasn't always so sure. I just wasn't. Because I never stood out. Yes, I had a coach for a father and how many how many trainers have kids who compete but aren't successful. And then when I went to the big leagues, you know, I had already fought. I had done 16 professional fights across the post-soviet space. Later, when I was already signed to the UFC, there I already had this feeling. You know, with each fight, I was getting mentally stronger. My mind was becoming more and more solid, like concrete. When I went out there, I knew, yes, these are fights, yes.

1:20:38Khabib Nurmagomedovyou can take a hit yes anything can happen when knees elbows fists are flying when you can get caught in a choke you know but i thought if they don't knock me out how will they beat me i have 15 minutes 15 minutes is enough to make a person tired i'm like okay if you want to stop me come here i'll give you that chance Let's get in the octagon. I had these impatience during fight week. I wanted to go in there and feel my opponent. I just wanted to be inside the cage for them to close us in for the referee to say ready ready fight and Here I wanted to feel to grapple with him and feel his strength his skills his energy and for it not to stop

1:21:35Khabib NurmagomedovAnd with any opponent I felt from the beginning. And I didn't actually have superhuman strength. But from the beginning, when I grabbed them in the first minute and then in the sixth or seventh minute I could feel them fading. I was, let's say, like squeezing this energy out of them. And I was getting better and better minute by minute.

1:22:04Khabib NurmagomedovCan you break down the technical details of your top pressure that pressure you put on in wrestling on the ground? All of it. How does it work? Can you explain the philosophy behind it? Over the years, I've learned to use my strength properly. There's this sport called aikido. I don't like it much, but I like their philosophy where your strength might work against you.

1:22:32Khabib NurmagomedovI think for a lot of listeners, this is gonna be a brand new sport. But there is this sport called aikido. And the whole philosophy behind it is using your opponent's force against them. That's what I learned to do. And I have learned to force an opponent into positions where they have to escape wasting their energy. Like when we were aspiring yesterday. That's exactly what I wanted. I wanted you to feel that energy, that heavy top pressure.

1:23:02Khabib NurmagomedovWe could have just played around. I could have gone easy on you. But I wanted you to feel the real heavy pressure. And of course, please don't think it was a sign of disrespect. It's quite the opposite. No, it was respect. I just wanted you to feel that, you know, how exhausting it can be. I think you felt it yourself that it was a bit different from the kind of grappling you've dealt with before. I'm sure of it. The only one who's even close to that is... I mean, you're the absolute number one.

1:23:33Khabib NurmagomedovBut the only thing is, when I trained with Roger Gracie in a different sport, you get that same feeling with him like the guy is just insanely heavy. Pressure, pressure. Well, Roger, he's the greatest too. He's the greatest in his own sport. What makes a person unique is his style. His style and his approach to his work. I always approach my craft very professionally, you know, respectfully. I believe that if you're gonna be in this game,

1:24:04Lex FridmanIn this sport, you have to completely dedicate yourself to it. But I think you had a deep understanding of how to break an opponent, both physically and psychologically, just looking at your style. I've always been right there, always fighting for position. I always... Look, I mean that I just always had this thought in my head. My grandfather always told me, a dog that latches onto that one weak spot always wins.

1:24:37Khabib NurmagomedovIt's the same with a fighter. When you're fighting on pure instinct, you feel your opponent's weakness. You know where they're weak and you have to keep pressing right there. For example, let's say I'm fighting Connor, right? His strengths are his strike and his timing and his speed. His boxing. Why would I stand and strike with him? What am I supposed to do? I have to put pressure on his weak spot. So...

1:25:08Khabib NurmagomedovThat's what separates the fighters who reach success, the highest level of success and become the best of the best. They know how to find an opponent's weakness and they pressure it relentlessly. So it all comes down to having the right strategy here. Your fight with Connor I think was the biggest fight in UFC history. That's for sure. Well actually in all of sports do you think there will ever be another fight of that magnitude in the UFC, is it even possible? Well, let's look at the history here. I mean, our sport is still very young, say 35 years old, starting from the 90s. Put it this way. Take for example, the sport most similar to MMA, which is, well, let's say boxing. How old is boxing? 150 years? Like when you think boxing, what

1:26:10Khabib NurmagomedovWhat pops into your head? Thrilla in Manila? Yeah, yeah. Well, I love Mike Tyson a lot too, so... Well, Tyson had big fights, but Mike Tyson never had that signature rival like Muhammad Ali had in Joe Frazier. Yeah, he just didn't have one. I mean, who do we have? Evander Holyfield? Look, Holyfield Tyson is no Muhammad Ali. Take Ali and Frazier. Thrilla in Manila, right? People called it the greatest rivalry. And it still is.

1:26:42Khabib NurmagomedovIn the 20th century, there was nothing that could compare. In the 21st century, the only thing you could compare to it, purely based on the numbers, is Paquiao and Mayweather. Yes, there was public interest, but there wasn't the energy that there was with Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier. Yeah, if I can just pause for a second, I'll check on perplexity. List the biggest boxing fights of all time. It's Ali and Frazier, like you said. Yeah, yeah. The first, the third. Well, when he lost.

1:27:12Lex FridmanAnd then the third fight, the thriller in Manila. And Foreman, I must say, Lee vs. Foreman. Well, Foreman, that was there, I think, 74, right? The fight was watched by up to a billion people worldwide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was one of those things. Politics got mixed into it, too. Yeah. Well, it was actually a very big fight. Sugar Ray Leonard, Durand, Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Thomas Hearns, Hagler vs. Hearns. Well, Hagler. Hagler and Durand in Montreal.

1:27:40Khabib NurmagomedovYeah, Sugar Ray Leonard and Durran in Montreal when they fought when he admitted after the fight that he lost the mental game and broke down before the fight But then sugar Ray beat him later. Yeah, he came back in one. Yeah Well, if you look at it out of everything that stands out, I think you can mention Fraser and Muhammad Ali and there was also Joe Lewis Against the German Max Schmeling Hitler stood behind Schmeling and Roosevelt stood behind Lewis for those who don't know this story. I just watched it recently It was something incomparable. They were so big. They were two of the most The most famous athletes of their time Roosevelt was promoting Joe Lewis, you know At that moment for America it was like something incredible that a white president was promoting a black world champion

1:28:34Lex FridmanAnd on the other hand, Hitler stood behind Schmeling. It was what? 1936, 1938, that they had... They fought twice? Twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They fought two times. This wasn't just a good boxing match. Just a good fight. This was politics. Those were nations. This was politics. This was nations. Everything. It all came together. And it's the same thing with Ali, too. Muhammad Ali with the Vietnam War, all that stuff.

1:29:02Khabib NurmagomedovYes, yes. And his and even religion is tied into it. Everything here came together. They simply went beyond sports. Yeah. It was the exact same thing when I fought Connor. That fight went beyond our sport. It impacted every sport because athletes of all kinds of different sports. Everyone who loves to compete it didn't matter if it was football, basketball, soccer or boxing. Everyone was following this.

1:29:31Khabib NurmagomedovAnd honestly, will there be a fight like that? Well, it's hard for me to say, but I think it'll happen. It'll happen for sure. There will always be champions, there will always be rivalries. But when it'll happen, that's just a matter of time. So it's not entirely about the athletes, it's about everything combined. Yeah, it's everything combined. The way he talked, what he stirred up, the lines he crossed, touching on family, religion, and then somehow...

1:30:00Khabib NurmagomedovOn one side you had Conor, this really interesting champion who knew how to hype himself up. And on the other side you had this undefeated somebody from nowhere, from the mountains. You know how it is. It all somehow, all of it just kind of happened naturally. And it wasn't staged. It was real. We had a real rivalry, unlike the way a lot of people now just hype up interest in a fight. But people feel that energy. It doesn't go anywhere.

1:30:29Khabib NurmagomedovPeople can tell what's real and what's fake and because of that we went we went beyond our own sport That's what made this fight so massive Well, when you look into your heart back then and now Did you have anger? Did you have hatred for him? Back then and even now I'd still keep a cool head Nothing has changed when you let your emotions take over when they're off the charts and you completely lose control that's a very bad place to be. So you'll tire out faster, you'll fall, you'll fall for any kind of bait and so on. I just knew that, that I needed to stay calm, composed, to stick to the plan no matter what happened and not go beyond my emotional limits. This is a very very dangerous moment when you give in to your emotions.

1:31:34Khabib NurmagomedovYou have to control them. Every single detail, every little thing has to be perfectly in place. The second you let it all slip, everything becomes a total mess. So, once the fight was finally done, I just let all my emotions out. I had to step right in and prove it and punish him and show them I'm better, that I'm better than him. And put a final end to this whole bitter rivalry. When all of that was over, your emotions came out that's where my emotions just went over the edge but until the fight was completely finished starting from training you know as the press conferences at the weigh-ins everywhere in front of the media everywhere i kept myself completely under control and i was very good at it honestly looking back it's been almost eight years now looking back well i'm a little surprised at that point i was a very emotional guy too

1:32:32Khabib NurmagomedovOver these 8 years, a lot has happened in my life, but I'm surprised that I kept it together. And, well, you know, it wasn't easy for me to keep myself within my limits, to keep myself under control like that. But here, again, I'll come back to what I said, I was very lucky. My father called me that time I was here 2 months before the fight. His advice helped me out so much because for me it was Not just that it mattered. It was actually the most important thing for me back then just to Know my father's reaction how he was taking everything that was happening Because there was just so much media coverage. So I knew my father was watching It was important for me to know his take I'd call and ask

1:33:28Khabib Nurmagomedovand my father would even tell me things I hadn't even asked him about. He'd bring it up on his own because you know the way it is with us between me and my father. In our traditions, in our part of the world, in our family for generations, in our village, there's just always this distance with your father. Like when you walk in, there are just so many things you can't let yourself do in front of your father. You have to be like sort of like a soldier in front of a general, right?

1:33:56Khabib NurmagomedovIf you can even make that comparison, if a soldier stands at attention like that, then with us it's even stricter. Like even just to give an example here. For instance, imagine you're a father sitting there right and your two-year-old kid walks up to you and wants to play with you. You can't even like do that baby talk thing with your own kid. You don't have that kind of friendship.

1:34:24Khabib NurmagomedovYou know it's a friendship, but it's different, yes. There's a certain distance that you must keep around your father. You always have to be like completely buttoned up, yeah. You have to stand like a soldier in front of your father. You don't let your emotions take over. At that point, just to know what my father thought who was like all the way across the ocean, who couldn't just fly out and be there to support his son and just be there by my side. But for me, Since he didn't have a visa, I just had to know exactly what he thought. I didn't care what anyone else thought. I didn't care about the opinions of like millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions watching this fight. I only ever cared about one person and his take, what he thought and what he'd say to me. But I couldn't call him and say, Father, what do you think about this? Well, we never had that. Well, you had to wait. I would just call and...

1:35:24Khabib Nurmagomedovwait to hear what it say. And my father, he knew exactly where to draw the line, because he was in the exact same position with his own father since his own father was still around. And then, he had a son too, right? And he understood me, how I felt about him, since his relationship with his own father was the same way. And in that sense, back then, my father really kept me grounded, mentally. He even told me, He even told me something once. Do you know how diamonds are like actually made? Under great pressure. He says you're under great pressure and you have a choice You can break down and give up or you can get through it all properly clearly with dignity Go in prepare right make weight recover go in win and settle it once and for all and those exact kinds of moments

1:36:25Khabib Nurmagomedovthey really they deeply impacted me so because of those words you could cut everything off yeah focus well mentally mentally like if a million people showed up right there and told me right outside where I was staying at the hotel right like if a million people gathered right under my window and said hey we've got your back and honestly just one call from my father it wouldn't even compare Because that one call from my father, that one piece of advice, his support, his voice, it charged me up way more than absolutely everything else combined. But I must say, Jose Aldo, who is one of the greatest fighters of all time, and still, Connor was arguably able to psychologically break him. Yeah, but with you, it seems like Connor was not able to mentally affect you. Did he manage to get into your head even a little?

1:37:26Khabib NurmagomedovNo, not at all. I had a clear understanding that physically and mentally I was just way stronger than him. I didn't doubt myself for even 1%. Well, people, they can say whatever they want. He's got a massive fan base too. Maybe they won't agree with that. But the Almighty gave me this unshakable confidence that it's just really hard for me.

1:37:57Khabib Nurmagomedovto even put into words. And I just deeply believed that I was better than him and that I was stronger than him. And that in this matchup, well, I was supposed to win. I just had this rock solid faith in myself. Up until that moment, is it fair to say that this was your toughest fight? Up until that moment? Correct. 100%. Because fighting is all psychology, you know.

1:38:28Lex FridmanIt's a mental game. Mentally speaking, that was my toughest fight. At that point, yeah. But a tougher fight came later. With Gagey? With Gagey. There were a lot of factors that made it so tough. Yes. So can you explain, you said somewhere that actually, unfortunately, or at least from my perspective, unfortunately, we never got to see your absolute limit? Were you... Not in fights? No.

1:38:59Khabib NurmagomedovYou've never seen my limit in fights, but you said that gaegi Was the closest to it because of the whole process Can you explain why it was a tough fight your last one? First and foremost it was because I had lost my father. It was hard to pull myself together Everything piled up at once. My father was gone and training without my father Without the person I was doing all of these four the person I wanted to become champion for First and foremost to prove to him To prove to him that I could become the best and then The training camp itself physically. I was not in the best shape. I had injury after injury after injury but Mentally speaking, I stayed completely sharp. Well, this is when you got injuries your mental game can sleep a little

1:40:02Khabib NurmagomedovOr things at home are going bad. All of that impacts a person. One, two, three, four. All these things affect you. You become, let's say, not sharp. You lose your fire. Your fire leaves you. Your focus leaves you. Your head is somewhere else. Even though you are physically there, mentally you are somewhere else. But I always stayed there. I knew it. Nobody had any idea that was going to be my last fight.

1:40:31Khabib NurmagomedovNo one knew about the talk I had with my mother. But you knew and you were sure? Well, I knew for myself. This is my last fight. I was never going to step into the cage again. I knew it and I had to finish it right then and there because putting myself through all of that yet again, it would have just been too hard on me if I got injured and the fight fell through. And putting my mother through all that stress again.

1:40:58Khabib NurmagomedovI knew that all the anxiety I go through for three months leading up to a fight, my mother goes through it too. I understood all of that. I wanted to put an end to it because we already had that talk, we already had an agreement. All of that combined, I mean mentally it just, I was, you know, I was right on the edge, like, it was a fine line and I really was on the edge. And I heard or maybe read somewhere.

1:41:29Khabib Nurmagomedovthat you said you were already starting to miss it while the fight was still going on. Yeah, inside the octagon. I knew it would never happen again. I stepped in there and I just took it all in. I was fighting and just every single moment, every moment, every single move, I felt it deep down. And in my head, I already knew this was the final run.

1:41:56Khabib NurmagomedovEverything I'd been doing my entire life, it all came down to this. That competitive rush. I'll never feel that anywhere else. I knew deep down this was my last fight. What kind of feelings were those? I've never felt anything like that again. Those feelings could only be experienced right there, on that exact day that very evening with that opponent inside that cage. I've never had them before that night and never had them since.

1:42:23Khabib Nurmagomedovand I don't think I'll ever be able to feel that way again. I think Buvaisar said that these feelings, standing on the podium, becoming an Olympic champion, you only feel them in that moment when they announce you. You step onto the podium, that's it. They announced you. You won. You live. That's it. You only feel them there. You don't feel them anywhere else. And athletes live for those feelings. They train their whole lives for them. Do you ever think about that? That in our lives, if we're lucky, We only get maybe one or two moments like that at that absolute peak. Yes, yes, yes, very rarely. It's so rare. What is happiness really? The way I see it is when you experience certain feelings for a very short time. You can't be constantly happy like you achieve something and then you're happy for years. It just doesn't work that way. The Almighty didn't build us that way. You get there even when you become a champion.

1:43:25Khabib Nurmagomedovand you fully feel that moment, you win. And then you wake up the next morning, and that's it. Is that all I worked for? There's nothing more like that. You know, like, can I have seconds? You can't have seconds. It's like in our cafeteria. Can I have seconds? So well, you become champion, you win, then you wake up the next day. That's it. Your daily routine continues. It doesn't end.

1:43:53Khabib NurmagomedovYou've already got different things going on different problems other tasks now and you're like it all went by so fast Then you wake up the next day pack your bags head to the airport fly out land back home Everyone's celebrating and just like that the next day everyone's gone. That's it everyone lives their own life and well But later on there are moments. Well, you know When you still feel the impact of that success, let's say like let's say public recognition, for example people's recognition and recognition is legacy. A lot of people get it twisted when we start talking about legacy. What even is a legacy? What does legacy mean, right? For me personally it is public recognition. Like when people come up to you, like parents come up with their kid and they say

1:44:50Khabib NurmagomedovYou know you inspire our son to get into sports. You are a real role model for him. And in that exact moment, it's like you just you start to realize that none of this was in vain. But here's the thing. Does everyone approach every champion like that? Every successful person? Do people even come up to them at all? That's the question. There are people who became champions. There are people who rose to the top of their field.

1:45:19Khabib NurmagomedovBut they just don't inspire anyone and well People look at you like yeah, you were a champion, you know, but nobody wants to be like you There are so many people like that who achieve success, but they They don't inspire the younger generation because the youth they look at you and they just don't see you as a good person And looking at it that way sports

1:45:51Lex FridmanIt's such a double-edged sword. They lost themselves in it when they became champions. Or maybe they never truly were. If we can, I want to talk about MMA and football in that same context. Let's start with MMA. Who do you think are the greatest fighters of all time? You said you have a few favorites. Shogun, George St. Pierre, and Fedor Emilianenko. Let's talk about those fighters.

1:46:24Lex FridmanAnd maybe others who interest you. They all had different distinct styles. So tell me why Shogun? You've always said that he was important to you as a fighter. And naturally, he had legendary moments in Pride in 2005. His soccer kick. Yes, that's right. Well, Shogun Rua, when I was 15, 16 years old, he was the Pride champion. At that time for me, it was the best organization in the world.

1:46:52Khabib NurmagomedovThe best fighters in the world competed there, Fedor, Krokov, Shogun, Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva, man they had everybody. Overrim, Dan Henderson, the Nogera brothers, the Yemely and Enko brothers. They were the best at that time, for me, and honestly for MMA as a whole. And right there in second place, in my opinion, shining right behind Fedor, was Shogun. And the way he fights, No matter how they took him down, he get right back up. They couldn't do a thing to him. Yeah, his wrestling was lacking, but his striking, Thai clinch, punches, kicks, knees, when he landed those soccer kicks. Well, he really appealed to me as a fighter. Very calm, careful, very emotionally restrained and his fight style. His style was actually at a very high level. The way he fought, no other fighter ever did.

1:47:49Khabib NurmagomedovAt that time, he really impressed me. Then he crossed over to the UFC and became the UFC Champion. And UFC fights and the pride fights at that time. I didn't have a computer, internet, none of that. I remember there was this video rental place with grab tapes and watch all these fights with my father.

1:48:18Khabib NurmagomedovMauricio Shogunrua to me was like the gold standard of a fighter back then. I'd say right alongside Fedor and George St. Pierre. And by the way, when you watched the fights with your father, did you watch them for fun or analyze them too? Mostly we analyzed them. My father always loved to analyze fights. We'd sit like this and he'd say this, this, chokes, striking, wrestling. We were constantly analyzing.

1:48:49Khabib NurmagomedovThere was a fight in 2006 or 2007, I don't even remember the exact year. Approximately around that time when George St-Pierre fought Sean Sherk, we even rewatched that fight a couple of times. Then George St-Pierre fought BJ Penn, the second fight I think after the fourth round when there was a stoppage.

1:49:14Khabib NurmagomedovThen well, there were many many fights and my father actually admired the fighting style the fighting style of George St. Pierre He really impressed us and my father my father always emphasized his timing of takedowns after striking how he closed the distance And honestly my whole you know like teenage conscious years growing up like my formative years, transitioning into an adult, it was all tied to pride in its prime. And after the UFC bought pride and those fighters crossed over that whole boom in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009, the rise of the UFC. I remember that era so vividly. My father and I rewatched so many of those UFC fights. Well, I have to ask about Federer. What can you say about him?

1:50:12Khabib NurmagomedovHe had some legendary fights, he beat CroCop, BigNog, Mark Coleman, yeah, and Kevin Rindleman. And then, he had those legendary fights with the Japanese fighters, who were big stars over there. Man, I loved it. Honestly, he inspired me just by the fact that he was from Russia, and he was a Sambo fighter, he was closer to our school of training, Sambo, Combat Sambo, and…

1:50:42Khabib NurmagomedovAnd there was this moment. Back in 2004, the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship. Can you imagine? 2004, the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship. And Fedor showed up. He showed up. He came to compete in the Dagestan Open Combat Sambo Championship while being the reigning pride champion. I was 15 years old at that time. I was right there in the venue. My father actually invited him.

1:51:11Khabib NurmagomedovHe was sending out invitations to different schools back then. It was Stari or school where he used to train. Fedor's coaches were sent an invitation. He came with his brother Alexander. They both made it to the finals back then. I just remember $5,000, $3,000, $1,000. First, second, third place. At heavyweight, they gave a car. When the two brothers arrived, they beat everyone to get to the finals. They didn't fight each other.

1:51:41Khabib NurmagomedovOne of them took first place, that was Fedor, Alexander took second place. I remember back then, when he was warming up, I was standing next to him while he warmed up. It was this building, you know, a venue that fits maybe 1500 people, and over there was this partition, like a wall, and everyone was warming up behind that wall. At that time, well, practically very few people even knew who Fedor was, but I knew Fedor. I knew who he was, that he was the pride champion.

1:52:08Khabib NurmagomedovAt that time, he beat Nogera, beat Mark Coleman, beat Randleman. This was before his championship fight against CroCup. I would come over and just sit there, watching how he warmed up, what he did. I just remember very well. I don't know, maybe Fedor will see this podcast. He had a thermos. He had a thermos and he was just drinking tea. And I remember he fought Ibrahim Magomedov. He was also a legendary fighter of ours, a heavyweight who fought in Pride 2.

1:52:38Khabib NurmagomedovHe fought against him. It was either his first or second fight and he he was warming up Incredibly well. I remember how he was warming up his nose and his ears I watched him and it was unusual for me at that time. I never warmed up my nose and ears I just I just remember how Phaedo was really working on his nose his ears his whole face and He went fought came back. This was in Mahacala 2004 It's the same as UFC Champion now coming and fighting at the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship. Can you imagine that? Back then, it was the best heavyweight organization in the world. He comes there and fights. So he finished a fight, goes back and he had this big thermos with him. His team was sitting separately over there. He was drinking tea. He just fought, walked back, poured some tea and drank it. He had something to snack on with it. Maybe honey or something. I just don't remember.

1:53:36Khabib NurmagomedovAnd I was, wow, Fedor is right here. For me, that was just such a, you know, great source of motivation back then. It's really hard to put those emotions into words. By the way, maybe you could ask him about that on the podcast about the thermos. No, no, about the tea. What was in it? Time meant. What did he put in there? Well, I would love to talk to him on this podcast, but I think he rarely does interviews.

1:54:07Lex FridmanI think you can reach him. I can help you. Well, if you could put in a good word for me. Yeah, of course. I think it would be interesting for people to hear him. Absolutely. Yeah. But psychologically, he's kind of like you in a way. You mean calm? Yeah. Yes, that calmness. You see the pride era, those huge fights, those really tough matchups. And still, he always stayed calm.

1:54:39Khabib Nurmagomedovit's his aura yeah i don't know about others but for me that was his aura the fact that he'd come out with such a calm cool-headed look and knockout giants strong fighters at that time right yeah you know we used to joke about his face that he kind of looks like a kindergarten teacher you know and then he goes out there and knocks out absolute giants And he was like that, both before and after the fight he never showed much emotion. But I think we're a little different in that regard. I think Fedor, by temperament, is calmer than I am. That's my impression. But with that, cold-blooded calmness of his, I think he got to a lot of people mentally. It's like, something's happening inside both of you, like something's boiling inside.

1:55:41Khabib NurmagomedovSo when we look at your face, of course, it's boiling. What do you think? You know what? It's one thing when it's boiling inside and you show it. But there are some who can't hide their feelings. But it's a different thing when it's boiling inside and on the surface you stay cold, cold-blooded, calm, and you can handle all these different emotions that hit you at the same time. There are a lot of them and they all hit differently. When you compete, what makes a fighter?

1:56:11Khabib Nurmagomedovand athlete at the highest level, so unique is that so many different emotions hit you at the same time. Fear, nerves, the fact that people are watching you, the thought that you might perform badly, that you might not show what you've trained for, that you might mess it up, that you might, I don't know, fall so much enters your head and you can put each emotion where it belongs.

1:56:40Khabib NurmagomedovSo, you know, if all of that gets inside your head and turns into chaos, you won't be able to handle it emotionally, but you stay cold-blooded. And you know that if you don't handle these emotions that are coming at you, if you don't handle this pressure, then it will be difficult for you to compete, because the main competition is against yourself first. You fight yourself, you beat yourself, and only then...

1:57:10Khabib NurmagomedovDo you actually start competing with your opponent? So, I think it happens to everyone, not just him or me. The big difference here is how much you can control it. Fedor himself famously said, The only person who can defeat me is me. The only person who can beat me is me. He was talking about that fight with yourself, I'm sure. Because if you lose to yourself, then you'll lose to your opponent very easily. There's an interesting thing I came across.

1:57:41Khabib NurmagomedovAdam Satiev said that high-level athletes often make a mistake. And what they do wrong is that when they feel fear, they tend to ignore it. He believes that you have to confront that fear and overcome it. Yes, psychologists talk about how to work through those thoughts when they arise. You know, when fear comes up, and you feel it, that's absolutely normal. It's what the Almighty put in us. People get scared, people get cold, people feel pain, people get hungry. These are things that are inside all of us. The real question is how you deal with them, how you overcome them within yourself. 100% you can't ignore it and you must work through it. You have to answer the questions. Why did this happen?

1:58:38Khabib NurmagomedovCould I do it this way instead? And this comes only with experience. Only with experience. And the more you compete, you know, the more you train and the more you face it. Some people actually try to avoid that moment. But the more you face it, the better and better you'll become each time. It's the same with athletes. They get nervous. That's what we call the jitters, right?

1:59:09Khabib NurmagomedovAt first, whenever someone competes, they get the jitters. But when you keep competing over and over again, you gradually learn how to channel those nerves in the right direction. Then it gets easier for you. And in order to get there, you have to compete. And what is competition? You meet this fear face to face, you don't avoid it. A lot of guys are staying away from competitions. When they're young, They have this tension, this self-consciousness, this fear, the jitters, they're nervous, they can't sleep at night. You have to go through all of that yourself. Nobody can do it for you. A coach can train you, a coach can teach you. But all he can say is, practice, practice, practice. Then there's you, alone with your own feelings. When you lie down, when you wake up, when you walk, when you buy yourself, when you eat,

2:00:08Khabib NurmagomedovThere are so many moments when a person has to go through all of this on his own. And when you have to go through this over and over again, some people back away, they don't want to face it. And what do you need for that? Patience. You have to come and endure it and go through all of it, through your skin, through your muscles, through your mind.

2:00:35Lex Fridmanyou must let all of this pass through you and overcome it. And each time, you'll get better at it. A good example of that is the third person you mentioned, George Saint Pierre, who by the way, sends his regards. I train with him a lot and he has a very deep respect for you, but he didn't give me much good advice because when I told him I was going to train with you, he told me, what did he say? He texted me, if you die, you die. That's what he said.

2:01:05Khabib NurmagomedovGood advice. He's a wise man. Didn't support me and said, say hi. Tell him I say hi too. As we were talking about, he himself has spoken about this. That he was afraid and always felt fear before every single fight. That's interesting. One of the greatest fighters in history, yeah? And even he feels fear. He's not afraid to admit it. Everybody has fear.

2:01:34Khabib Nurmagomedoveverybody gets afraid, but I don't know how big that fear was for him. I really don't know. We never discussed it, but I've watched a lot of his interviews, his fights and his training camps. The way he analyzed his past fights and all that, the way I see it, he's a very sensitive person. There are people like that too. Some guys take all of this very lightly, like ok.

2:02:04Khabib NurmagomedovWe fight tomorrow. We'll see who my opponent is and how he shows up, right? But there are others who find it very difficult to handle psychologically. But the Almighty gave me this kind of calmness. Sometimes I'd get to the arena and they bring you in four hours before they fight. They have to weigh you, they have to do doping control and they have to tape you up.

2:02:33Khabib NurmagomedovThere are so many athletic commission procedures every state has different rules How they bring you into the arena and all that sometimes I'd get there four hours early and think what am I supposed to do? So I make myself a little bed and say please keep it quiet. I would lie down I could sleep there for an hour maybe an hour and a half That's it wake up warm up and then I could go out and fight and some guys they don't sleep for two days before they fight. Believe me, there are fighters who don't sleep the night before a fight and it's very hard on them. It's not really fear, it's hard to describe with just one emotion. It's too many emotions that come over a person and they can't fall asleep. It's panic, it's fear, it's worry, it's nervousness, it's the jitters. All of that builds up.

2:03:31Lex Fridmanand the person just can't fall asleep. So, in that regard, the Almighty gave me a little more calmness than others. I had, you know, such a cool head and calmness before the fights. Now, you're in this new position, as a leader, and you're looking at all these athletes, these young guys who are already at the very top of the world, and I think they're all very different from one another.

2:04:02Lex Fridmanpsychologically, physically, and stylistically. What can you say as a coach? I know you're not a coach but as a leader. How do you figure out what each person needs? Like now, we were watching Umar prepare. Yeah. That each person needs something different. Yes, everyone is different. Different styles, different mentalities, different mindsets, different approaches to fight weak.

2:04:31Khabib Nurmagomedovand to preparation as a whole. But you have to adapt to all of it. Here, you can't just take one approach. Let's say we take my approach and apply it to everyone else. To Usman, Islam and Umar. It doesn't work like that. Everyone needs their own approach. I knew them since they were nobody and I know them now when they are the best.

2:04:59Khabib Nurmagomedovso you have to treat each one differently. I'm very lucky to have Javier Mendez. He's been by my side since 2012. And when I became a coach, after I finished my career, he was there with me as a coach. I switched from being a fighter to a coaching role. My father was no longer with us. And together with Javier Mendez, we've been guiding them for these last 6 years.

2:05:26Khabib NurmagomedovAnd his experience helps me tremendously. Because there is no coach, no MMA coach, with the kind of results Xavier Mendez has, you know. So many champions, double champions, UFC fighters. So many people have trained under him. From Frank Shamrock all the way to Islam Makachev. So many fighters have trained under him. Which makes things very easy for me.

2:05:55Khabib Nurmagomedovbecause I have Javier Mendez by my side and he can help me with so many things. What do you think is the secret behind Javier's genius? Why is he such a great coach for so many different athletes? It's the mental side of things. I'm not gonna say he's one of the best at holding pads or anything like that, but his understanding of MMA itself, his approach to training camp, to the whole preparation process, and the amount of attention he pays to sparring inside the cage. I'm not talking about those sparring sessions with 50 people in the gym and everyone is sparring with each other. For example, when I was preparing for a five-run fight, he would always bring in two or three high-level opponents, constantly rotating in fresh sparring partners. And he would watch and analyze. I don't remember him ever missing a single sparring session.

2:06:54Khabib Nurmagomedovsince 2012. Can you imagine? 14 years have gone by and right now we are in training camp. He is there for every training session, morning and evening. He is at every sparring session watching everyone, coaching them, giving advice, guiding them. He is incredibly dedicated to what he does. He is either all in or he steps away completely. He never shows up and gives only 50%. I remember one situation.

2:07:26Khabib NurmagomedovAbu Bakar was getting ready to fight in WSOF and I had another student fighting there as well. Abu Bakar went through the entire preparation with us, but the other guy didn't. When we got there, I told the coach, coach, can you work his corner with me too? He said, you know Habib, I haven't seen his preparation. I don't know what he's capable of. He didn't train under me. But since you're asking, I'll do it. But for the future, remember.

2:07:54Khabib NurmagomedovI don't really like to corner guys I haven't prepared. I didn't understand him then, but now I do. This was 2016 or maybe 2017. I don't want to be wrong. And now I understand. Now when people ask me, I'm like, I didn't prepare you. I don't know how ready you are. I'm not ready to go in there and give all my energy to someone who didn't go through camp with me. Now I understand that. At that time, I told the coach, can you come out and corner him with me? He said, no problem. We went out there, Abu Bakar won his fight and the other guy's fight ended in a draw. But that's not really what I'm getting at. I've come to the point where if I haven't trained someone for 2, 3 or 4 months, I don't like to corner them because they didn't go through a full training camp and I don't know how they'll respond.

2:08:54Khabib Nurmagomedovin the third, fourth or fifth round. I don't know how he prepared. I don't know how ready he is to go into those deep waters. That's why I try not to corner just anyone. I learned that from Javier. So you need to know he can go into those deep waters. How deep he can go? I need to know exactly what he's capable of. What can you say about one of the greatest fighters and athletes ever? Daniel DC Cormier.

2:09:26Khabib Nurmagomedovwho you train with. You guys joke around all the time, so it's easy to forget how great he really is. What can you say about him as a training partner, as a coach, as a person? When we talk about DC, we have to go back to 2004-2008. He was a two-time Olympian. He represented Team USA at the Olympic Games. And that carries a lot of weight in this sport, especially in the 96 kilo division.

2:09:57Khabib Nurmagomedovand he is a two-time Olympian, then he transitioned to MMA, won a few fights on the regional scene, went to strike force, won fights there, they put him into the Grand Prix, he won the Grand Prix, became heavyweight champion, and then went to the UFC. When he moved to the UFC, he cut down to 205 pounds to make room for Kane Velazquez, because they were best friends. Kane was the heavyweight champion. So he moved to 205.

2:10:26Khabib Nurmagomedovand they both became champions, one at light heavyweight and one at heavyweight. Later, when Kane lost the title, he moved to heavyweight and won there too. He is one of the most unique athletes who has ever lived. How many athletes do you know, who competed at the world championships, at the olympic games, in freestyle wrestling, then transitioned to MMA and became strike force champion, UFC light heavyweight champion, and UFC Heavyweight Champion. And he is also remembered for his rivalry with one of the greatest, if not the greatest, John Jones. But by the time he fought John Jones, he was no longer at his peak. I think he was already pushing 40. Even though we have this friendly, joking relationship, because he is such a fun, interesting guy, as an athlete though,

2:11:27Lex FridmanHe's truly one of a kind as a commentator to he's very good with words Educated well mannered strong. Yeah, he has so many great qualities Daniel Kormya is one of those people who I think can truly inspire others So who usually wins when you guys wrestle you or DC? Well, he's got a few years on me

2:12:00Khabib NurmagomedovBut back in my prime, when I was competing at lightweight, I weighed around 84, 85, maybe 86 kilos. DC was always around 107, 110, those are completely different weight classes. DC was better at wrestling and as an Olympian too, all joking aside. So you feel, back then it was really tough of course, but now it's different and now I can go after him.

2:12:29Khabib NurmagomedovBut I learned so much from come here honestly so much as a person a wrestler and a fighter You know we spent our best years together at aka from 2012 to 2020 We've shared so many memories and moments together as well. I just think it's a shame that people don't talk about him as one of the top five top 10

2:12:54Lex FridmanWell, top 10 for sure, one of the top 10 greatest, no question. Absolutely. Yeah, I definitely think so. It's a shame, but you see this in football and in other sports too. One rivalry can overshadow an entire legacy. For DC, it's John Jones. Well, John Jones was the better athlete. There's no doubt about that, but DC was right there with him. Yes, John Jones won, but DC gave him a real fight. He was that very person, you know?

2:13:24Lex Fridmanwho actually made John Jones train harder. People shouldn't forget that. I'm sure John Jones prepared for that fight like it was the hardest fight of his life. Well, we've talked about different athletes, about Umar, but now let's talk about Islam Makachev, one of your closest brothers, who's at the very top of the world. You've known each other, you've trained together for more than 20 years. In your opinion,

2:13:55Khabib NurmagomedovWhat makes him such a special wrestler and fighter? Why has he reached such heights? Why is he a great fighter? Well, let's start with the fact that Islam has been doing this his whole life since childhood. And I've known him since childhood too. We went to the same school, lived in the same neighborhood, trained at the same gym, and he was my father's student. And it's worth mentioning he was one of my father's favorite students. Yes.

2:14:26Khabib NurmagomedovOne of the best students. My father saw in him this potential for greatness in how hard he trained. That's what I was talking about at the beginning of the podcast. When you go into the dark, uncomfortable room and stay there for a long time, no matter how hard it gets, he knew how to make sacrifices. He was very disciplined. Nobody reaches this level by accident.

2:14:58Khabib NurmagomedovIt's impossible without exceptional natural gifts. And he has them. He's gifted. Allah blessed him with those gifts. And he's deeply devoted to what he does. We basically grew up together, right? I'm three years older than Islam. And I was always a little bigger, a little older than him. So when we were amateurs, I competed in slightly heavier weight classes. But we worked together a lot. And Islam benefited tremendously from training with me. We trained together for many years. And he never had to go anywhere to find a sparring partner. Because he always had one in the gym. So I developed by training with the older guys in the gym, the stronger guys, the better guys, when I was young. Then when they left,

2:15:55Khabib NurmagomedovI was the one in front. Islam kept growing, growing, growing. Now I left, Islam is the one in front and now other guys are developing through him. This is a kind of chain that exists in a gym, in a training system that produces the best fighters in the world. And in this chain, Islam was always behind me. If I was behind someone, Islam was behind me.

2:16:19Khabib NurmagomedovNow others are following Islam, Usman, Amru and other guys. You could put them against any of the best fighters in the world right now and they would perform very well. So in this chain, we've had since 2003 and now it's already 2026, that's 23 years. Islam was the one coming up behind me. And now There are younger guys coming up behind Islam. And it's no secret that Islam will turn 35 in October. But what makes me happy is that there are younger guys coming up behind him. I left, Islam stepped in, one day Islam will leave too and others will take his place. And this cycle, it never ends, it keeps going and it keeps pulling the next generation forward. At the beginning, a lot of people are involved.

2:17:14Khabib NurmagomedovBut as you gradually climb higher, higher and higher, the road gets narrower and fewer and fewer people remain. And alongside Islam, a lot of guys were developing while training with me. But Islam made it all the way because of his work ethic, his discipline and let's call it sacrifice. He gave up a lot to reach this level. This isn't easy.

2:17:44Khabib NurmagomedovYou have to make sacrifices. You have to make sacrifices. You have to give up parties. You have to sacrifice sleep. You have to sacrifice your time. There are so many things you have to give up. You have to dedicate your entire life to this sport, putting aside all the things that can distract you. You train, you sleep, you eat, you wake up and then you do it all over again.

2:18:12Lex FridmanOnly then can you reach the level that Islam reached. That's what makes him unique. Were there any small but interesting differences between you and Islam? Psychologically speaking, there are many. Psychologically, he's very solid too. I've been around him through so many training camps and so many fights. He's built very strong mentally. Of course, we're different in certain things but in terms of our fighters' attitude.

2:18:43Lex Fridmantoward their work we have a lot in common a lot you also train a lot yeah absolutely a lot and i think he well first i have to say i watched you train yesterday and it made me really happy to see that you still love this so deeply you know it's hard to love something for such a long time people finish and move on yes they retire and move on but me

2:19:12Khabib NurmagomedovIt's been 6 years since I retired and I still haven't let go of wrestling, of competition. I still go to the gym, to cardio, live, wrestle, grapple. I never let it go. It's still with me. And yesterday I told you that last week I did 200 minutes of live grappling. This week is a little different though because I'm just focused on umar, traveling and everything that comes with that.

2:19:42Khabib NurmagomedovSo, this week, it's going to be less. Still, I wrestle. I don't let go. I love it. I love this energy. I love that feeling after wrestling. You wrestle, let's say 40 minutes. Yesterday, I still wanted more. Just now, I wrestled with you, with Islam. Maybe 20 minutes, but still, it's not enough to get that feeling. That 100% feeling. I need around 40 minutes of wrestling, something like that.

2:20:10Lex FridmanI don't think most people listening to us will understand that. But I think some people watching, especially grappling and jujitsu fans, will understand me. Well, to be honest, sometimes there are cameras around you and for me at least that's harder. I like it when there are none. I usually train with no cameras. With you was one of the rare occasions when I come to the gym and

2:20:41Khabib NurmagomedovYou allow. When I allow it, yes. Thanks for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is very, very rare for me. Even with embedded, with UFC, with everyone who comes, I always say don't film. Thank you, brother. I don't know why, but cameras get in the way for me because this sport, this preparation, it happens here and that whole world where celebrities matter, it gets in the way. Yes, it gets in the way.

2:21:09Khabib NurmagomedovBut 99.9% of our training sessions happen without cameras. My goal was always to become the best in my sport, to become a world champion, to prove to myself that I could do it. But it's hard to choose just one person. Even now, look, there's always going to be Saint Pierre, there's always going to be Demetrius Johnson, there's always going to be John Jones, there's always going to be Fedor. If people want to include me in that conversation, If Islam gets into that conversation, if there's Kane Velasquez, Kormyev and so on, I'd be happy about that. And that's my goal. That someone from our team, from the people closest to me, gets there too. If John Jones is there, why can't Islam be there? If Demetrios Johnson is there with 11 title defenses, why can't Islam be there? It's a good question. Why not? I'd like him to break all those records.

2:22:36Khabib Nurmagomedovto overtake John Jones, Demetrius Johnson and Saint Pierre no matter how much respect I have for them. Islam has a chance, but time is starting to run out a little. This worries me because for example, Jones fought at light heavyweight and now at heavyweight, time is a little kinder to those divisions. Even at 38, you can still compete at the heavier weights. You don't need the same reaction speed and all that. But when you compete in lighter weight classes, 155, 170, age really catches up. I think active fighters, retired fighters, wrestlers, athletes, especially those who competed in these weight classes will understand what I'm talking about. When you're 35, and when you're 32, and when you're 38, you're a totally different athlete.

2:23:35Lex FridmanFrom where you are now, you can see the entire fight business, and you know Dana White very well. I'd say he's one of those rare geniuses in sports business, in business period. I don't think the UFC would exist without Dana White. There are important people there, of course, but he's really at the center of it all. What can you say about him? What qualities? What traits?

2:24:04Khabib Nurmagomedovhave made him such a successful businessman. First of all, I think if you look at it, I also kind of, well, not kind of, I understand his position a little. I also ran my own league for a couple of years. I know what the relationship between a promoter, well, a league owner and the fighters is like, not just as a fighter, dealing with a league owner. I've been on both sides of it.

2:24:37Khabib NurmagomedovHe's very good at separating business from personal relationships. For him, the two never, never overlap. He draws a clear line between them. In business, he's extremely cold-blooded. He's made decisions, some major decisions, regardless of whether people like them or not. And those decisions, they were best for the league and for the UFC.

2:25:06Khabib NurmagomedovHe always had that mentality, you know, like in those mafia movies where family comes first, right? Well, for him, the UFC always came first. That's the only way he was able to push their brain forward. Of course, a lot of people contributed to that success. There were a lot of them. You have to give credit to Bruce Buffer, to Joe Rogan, to the commentators who were there.

2:25:34Khabib NurmagomedovThere were a lot of things that made the UFC unique but But the cherry on top was always Dana Dana did an incredible job promoting the UFC and he still does No matter what the UFC is always there You know no matter how no matter how unsuccessful a particular event might be The UFC is still the UFC when they go into a new market outside the United States even if a show doesn't go so well People will still come back for the next event simply because it's the UFC. Over the last 30 plus years, they've established themselves as the premier MMA league in the world and they put on the best fights. So in that respect, I think a huge part of the credit goes to Dana. The fact that the UFC has come this far is a major achievement. Building a league like that is incredibly difficult. Yeah, a lot of people have money and a lot of people have tried. Many have come in. But building what the UFC has built is extremely hard.

2:26:32Khabib Nurmagomedovand what they've achieved now with paramount. That's something unique, it's a unique achievement. In just 30 years, they've grown to a level that some entire sports needed 100 or 150 years to reach. And you have to give credit where it's due, and that credit goes to one person, Dana White. So I think that his genius as a promoter, the way he promotes and pushes fights and pushes his league as a whole, that is just remarkable.

2:27:02Khabib NurmagomedovIn my opinion, that's something a lot of people could learn from him. You mentioned Joe Rogan, you know, he's a friend of mine. I love listening to his podcast, but I've never actually heard the two of you have a conversation together. Do you think that's something that could happen in the future? Yes, of course. I know you have a great deal of respect for him and he has a great deal of respect for you. I can't wait to hear the two of you talk. Same here. If we're talking about the people most responsible for promoting the UFC, I'd put Dana first.

2:27:32Khabib NurmagomedovBut second place, without question, goes to Joe Rogan. It's honestly hard to imagine the UFC without him. It'll be hard when he's no longer part of it. And what he's achieved in his own field, what he's achieved in podcasting, he's the best. And what he's built, the way he commentates, the way he communicates, his knowledge, his charisma, the way he carries a conversation. I think a lot of people could learn from him.

2:28:00Khabib NurmagomedovAnd as for me going on his podcast, I think it's inevitable. God willing, if we're given the time and the health, we'll have a lot to talk about. There are so many different topics we could discuss together. So a conversation with Joe Rogan would be very interesting. I definitely like to talk to him. I agree, but it's interesting. Right now, you and I are speaking Russian. Yes. Language is a tricky thing. Yeah, exactly. With him, you need to come prepared. Yes. Because if you show up unprepared, he will just eat you alive.

2:28:29Khabib NurmagomedovYou have to be ready. It's a mental battle too. Yeah, and by the way, you know, you've mentioned a few times that you'd like to improve your Arabic. Language is such an interesting thing. It opens doors to understanding. It allows you to understand culture and history on a much deeper level. Absolutely. Without the language, it's very difficult. I'm starting to study Arabic now, but I've been reading the Quran since I was a child. I know the...

2:28:59Khabib NurmagomedovThe alphabet very well, the pronunciation rules. I can read it well. But the Quran and Arabic as a spoken language are different. I wouldn't say they are drastically different, but they are different. If you want to speak it conversationally, you need to study grammar and learn it in a different way. I'd also like to ask you about Ali. Ali Abdul Aziz. He's such a central figure. He represents so many champions. What do you respect about him?

2:29:31Khabib NurmagomedovWhat do you think makes him a genius? Because he's such a unique person. Well, I met Ali in 2014. We've been working together ever since. Over the years, a lot of fighters came to him through me, a lot of guys. And in all this time, in the 12 years, we've known each other. I don't, I can barely remember any fighters leaving him.

2:30:03Khabib Nurmagomedovexcept maybe a couple. But hundreds of fighters have worked with him. Hundreds of fighters and so many guys still keep in touch with him and he has very good relationships with them. I'd also like to note that Ali, you know, he has one unique quality. People either really love him or really hate him. You can't just be neutral about him, you know, like, yeah, I know Ali is alright. No one will say about him. Well, you know, I know him. He's a good guy. You'll have strong feelings for him. Either you hate him, or you really love him. And I am in that category of people who really... How do I put it? Who are very fond of him. Yeah. And I have a good relationship with him. I know his family. I know his children. His kids grew up before my eyes. When I first met him, he only had two or three children. Now he has more.

2:31:05Khabib NurmagomedovThis is the kind of person he is. You need to get to know him better to really appreciate him and he will stand by you until the very end. And yeah, of course, there are people who have mixed feelings about him. But that's my point. It's hard to feel indifferent about Ali. I know Ali, he's a very good guy. It's different with him. People will either tell you, I know Ali and I absolutely love him or...

2:31:35Lex FridmanI know Ali and I can't stand him. So it's fair to say that most people who really know him and work with him tend to stay with him for life. Yes. And respect him. That's important. And his judo isn't bad either. It was. Right. You were just wrestling yesterday. Alright. Let's talk about football now. I want to ask you something.

2:32:01Lex FridmanAnd I need to be careful here because after yesterday I realized just how much you know about the game. I can't even pretend I know what I'm talking about anymore. I need to tread carefully. Yes, if we're gonna go there. Don't make any mistakes. I hope you did your research. I'm shaking now. You prepared? We could talk about a lot of interesting teams. You talked about the moment when you fell in love with football. That was the Champions League final in the 1998.

2:32:31Lex FridmanIt was Real Madrid against Juventus. It was the moment when you... You realized that Real Madrid was your team. The club you've continued to love and support ever since. Yeah. Tell me about that very first moment when you... When you watched the game with your father. What do you... What do you remember? You know, this is such an important sport for you for millions, hundreds of millions, billions of people. Billions, yes. What do you remember most about that game? And what did you fall in love with?

2:33:02Khabib NurmagomedovWell, first of all, my father was a huge football fan. He was a good player himself. When we lived in the village, they played almost every day. Football has always been very popular where I'm from, the kids, the young people, everyone plays. In fact, we still have this tradition in the village. As long as I can remember, it was a tradition for each street to put together its own team for a tournament with group stages, then the quarterfinals, semifinals.

2:33:32Khabib Nurmagomedovand the final. So it became a real tradition and everyone would. Everyone there follows football, the kids, the young people. And my father played too. Whenever there was a big match on, I'd always sit with him in front of the television and watch. The first football memory I have that's really clear and conscious goes back to 1996.

2:33:59Khabib NurmagomedovI couldn't tell you where we were watching it, I don't remember, but I remember sitting next to my father. It was the European Championship semi-final Germany and England. England lost on penalties at home and Germany advanced to the final. A few days later, we watched the final as well. We were at someone's place, we didn't have a TV at the time or maybe our channel wasn't showing the match. I don't remember. We watched it at somebody's place, it was Germany against the Czech Republic. Germany won that final.

2:34:31Khabib NurmagomedovI remember Oliver Birhof coming off the bench and scoring. That whole period is still very vivid in my memory. After that, I kept watching football whenever I could, and I remember the 1998 Champions League final. I watched it with my father. Again, I don't remember where we watched it, but it was the final 1-0. Real Madrid 1. I can still remember the players who were on the pitch. I was obsessed with football myself.

2:34:59Khabib NurmagomedovI'd spend hours, days outside playing with the ball, sometimes on my own, sometimes with a group. There was a period when actually in the settlement where I lived, in the village, I was pretty much the only kid who had a football. So the older guys would come over. I was maybe 9 or 10, and these were boys who were 15 or 16. They'd say, Habib, bring the ball out. But I'd give them a condition for bringing the ball out.

2:35:31Khabib NurmagomedovWhen you're 10 years old, nobody is putting you on a team with 15-year-olds, you know. The age gap is just too big, so I'd say, if I bring the ball, I'm playing. They go, all right, bring it out, and I'd get to play. And the kids my own age didn't make the team. You know how it is when there are a lot of kids around. Of course, the older boys would take charge. They decide who's playing. Normally, when you're 10 and they're 15, there was no chance you'd get picked.

2:35:57Khabib NurmagomedovBut I was very like I had the bow so I always made the team and got to play with them That's where it all started really you know that love for football started in my childhood My father and I always watch the big matches together. I even remember the 1998 I remember being somewhere and literally running home so I wouldn't miss the opening ceremony of the tournament in France I was just running I ran to my grandfather's house and said grandpa put on channel one I think it was channel one that was showing the opening. Ronaldo was playing in that tournament. So I sat there watching and my grandfather looked at me. I was 10. He looked at me and said, why are you interested? I said I want to watch. I sat and watched. The Brazilians won both matches back then, I think. They won against Morocco and lost to the Norwegians. The opening match was Brazil against Scotland, 2-1, right? Yeah, 2-1. So basically from childhood I already had that love for football.

2:36:58Khabib NurmagomedovAnd then it just grew. I started watching the Champions League, the Euros, the World Cup, and later the domestic leagues, mostly the Premier League. So that's where this passion comes from. And what about national teams? Brazil was your team growing up, right? That legendary Brazil team? I like Brazil, yes. I also like the Netherlands. Those national teams, Brazil and the Netherlands, those were the ones that really appealed to me.

2:37:28Khabib NurmagomedovAnd what about clubs? What were the main teams that you supported? It varied. I never had one national team that I'd say was my favorite team. Ah, you didn't? I didn't. Today, I don't feel the same way about the Netherlands. But back then, I really liked that Dutch team. A lot. Van der Sar, Rijtseger, Van Bronkhorst, Overmars, Davids, Zedof, Van Nistelruy, Mackay. That old lineup. Kluivert.

2:37:56Khabib NurmagomedovNow it's not the same, that era is gone, they just don't have players like that anymore. In that sense, there's been a bit of a drop-off for the national team. The same with Brazil, back then they were incredibly strong, but today it's not at that same level anymore. But when it comes to the club, the club I follow, that's Real Madrid, that's the one. But if we're talking about leagues overall, then because of the competition and the way the league is played, I'd say the English Premier League. And in the Premier League...

2:38:25Khabib NurmagomedovDo you follow Manu City? Not in a way where I have one team. No, I like them. They're both top clubs. They're big clubs. I watch them. I follow them. It just depends. But it's not like I have one favorite. I do like Manchester City. In recent years, they've been winning almost everything. They've dominated for the last 10 years. But if we look more closely at Manchester City, there's been a bit of a dip over the last two seasons. And then...

2:38:55Khabib NurmagomedovYou also have the rise of Arsenal in the last couple of seasons, a very well-structured team under Ateta. They really on the rise this season. They're leading the league, doing well in the Champions League. They're leading domestically as well, so I don't know how far they'll go, but they're aiming for their treble this season. I want to ask, because we live through such a moment in sports history, that we might never see anything like it again. I'm talking about this.

2:39:24Lex FridmanThis rivalry between Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo Of course, since you love Real Madrid, you know, you naturally love Cristiano Ronaldo But what can you say about it? A lot of people call him the absolute best and for many Messi is number one There's also a very good book about their rivalry. I recommend it It basically tells the story of modern football through their rivalry. Messi versus Ronaldo won rivalry almost 20 year era Yeah, two goats in an era that we made the world's game. So it's been 20 years. So what can you say? Why do you consider Cristiano Ronaldo a great footballer? What do you like about him? Let's start with Ronaldo. Well, he's a natural born athlete. God gave him the athleticism and he managed to maintain it. There are many who have lost it. There are many players who have talent, physical ability, but they are lazy.

2:40:27Khabib NurmagomedovBut he has it all athleticism talent hard work everything and Then there's this he played in Manchester. He moved He shown in Portugal at sporting then moved to Manchester And it's not easy to make your market Manchester from 2003 to 2008 he became a star there and what he achieved in 2008 Just look at how many individual trophies he won and how much he won with his team. You can even look it up Just search what Cristiano Ronaldo achieved in 2008. It's simply unbelievable. And then he moved from Manchester, he transferred to an even more difficult club. Real Madrid. 9 years at Real Madrid. 5 years at Manchester United. Then 9 years at Real Madrid. That's about 15 years. You're under constant pressure at the 2 biggest clubs in the history of football. And at both clubs. At both clubs. He became the best.

2:41:28Khabib NurmagomedovThat's very difficult. Yeah, look here. Three Premier League titles came during his time at Manchester United. Look at 2008 specifically, what he accomplished then. He won the Premier League, he won the UEFA Champions League. Individually, he won the Golden Boot, top score in the Champions League, the Premier League, every major trophy. Right. But the point is that at Manchester, he spent five years performing at the highest level under enormous pressure. Then he spent nine years at Real Madrid. Yeah.

2:41:59Khabib NurmagomedovAfter that, he moved to Juventus, but only for a short time. And this is the part people tend to forget. He spent 3 seasons at Juventus, and he also won both the Italian Championship and the Super Cup there, and scored 100 goals. And just the fact that for 20 years, let's say 22 or 23 years, he's been at the highest level. Look at how many goals he scored, and now he's closing in on 1000. Will Messi ever reach that number is the big question.

2:42:27Khabib NurmagomedovNext season, he scores 40 goals in a season and he's less than 40 goals away from the 1000 goal mark. That's how unique he is in their regard. But just because I'm a Real Madrid fan doesn't mean I downplay what Messi has achieved. It's impossible to downplay what Messi has done. You have to give him the credit he deserves. But I wouldn't want to put one of them above the other. If I'm being honest, both of them watching each other, competing with each other.

2:42:57Khabib NurmagomedovThey stayed there. Would Messi be Messi without Ronaldo? Would Ronaldo be Ronaldo without Messi? Those are big questions. I'm convinced they watched each other closely. They always have, and they still do now. For almost 20 years, they've been watching each other, pushing each other, and constantly improving. They were already the best, but that drove them even further. By competing against one another, they pulled so far ahead of the rest. Yes. Whether you're talking about achievements, trophies and all that...

2:43:25Lex FridmanAnd in that sense, the rivalry truly elevated the entire sport. More people started following football because of them, watching the games. So I believe both of them deserve tremendous respect. Yeah, I'd say I completely agree with you that if Messi hadn't had Ronaldo and Ronaldo hadn't had Messi. Yeah, would they have gone that far? I don't think so. That's an open question. I don't think so. Yes. But for me, there is nobody like Messi. His pure love for the game for its own sake.

2:43:56Khabib NurmagomedovYou're a Barca guy? Yes. Oh, really? Yeah, I can tell from the way you're talking about it. The way you... You got me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing against it, but... Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, Iniesta, Chaby, Busquets, Iniesta, Puyol. That was a legendary team. Yes. No, but look, you can compare them like this. Iniesta, Chaby, Busquets, Messi, Ronaldinho, Pique. Ronaldinho, yes. Ronaldinho.

2:44:26Khabib NurmagomedovHe was a bit earlier that Barcelona team from roughly 2008 to 2012, that four-year period, only one team in history can compare with them, Real Madrid from 2014 to 2018. They won in 2014, in 2016, 2017 and 2018. The only interruption was Barcelona's team with Neymar. With Neymar, yes. With Suárez and Messi, that was 2015. Well, let's leave that aside. But you know.

2:44:53Khabib Nurmagomedovwith Maudridge Cross, Casemiro, Ronaldo, Benzema, Marcelo, Carvajal, Casillas, and this team compared to Victor Valdez, Piquet, Puyol, Dani Alves, Jordi Alba, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa and Messi. For me, those are the two greatest teams, different generations, different squads. For me, they truly represent a, represent true dream teams.

2:45:25Khabib Nurmagomedovat football at club level that's the comparison but if we look at the national team level you could pick France in 1998 yes that 1998 France team is very close to a perfect team and also 2002 Brazil in 2002 they were extremely strong yes you had Ronaldo you had Ronaldo Rivaldo Ronaldinho Roberto Carlos Cafu Right you had Emerson you had Cleberson I think rookie junior Lucio Edmillson and Beyond those superstar names. They were also very strong players who kind of stayed in the shadow of those stars stayed in their shadow so Brazil 2002 France 1998 and then there was then later Spain from Euro 2008 the 2010 World Cup and Euro 2012

2:46:26Lex FridmanAt period two, Spain, the Spanish national team was close to perfect. I wanted to go back to France. You mentioned Zidane. I really, really respect and admire him. There was this moment psychologically very interesting. Almost Shakespearean moment in his career when it ended with that. How do you even call it? A headbutt. A headbutt to the chest. What's interesting is, I don't know, looking at your fight with Connor.

2:46:55Khabib Nurmagomedovwhen emotion builds up. For most of it, you're focused on the game, but in the end, you let that emotion out. What do you think about that headbutt? I wouldn't want to judge him. Wouldn't want to be some kind of judge of what he did? No. Well, he did what he did. We don't know what was really going on there. But as a player, of course, he was unique. He won the Euros, the World Cup, Rich Finals, won the Champions League, the Spanish and the Italian Championships.

2:47:27Khabib Nurmagomedovand cups too. It's just unique and the way he played, I just always remembered him for the way his sweat was just pouring off him. The way he ran, how he gave everything in every single match. He had incredible stamina, incredible endurance. I think a lot of people listening to this podcast may not have watched Zidane playing live. When I say live, I mean watching him play in real time. Right. I personally didn't see his games live. I was younger then. But I did watch many of his matches.

2:47:58Khabib Nurmagomedovlater on. I remember the goals he scored in World Cup finals in 1998 and 2006, especially the headers and even that penalty. The Champions League final, European championships, the way he played, the way he handled the ball, the way the ball was glued to his feet, his movements and then his charisma. It's rare to find all of that in one player. You don't see that combination often.

2:48:26Khabib NurmagomedovThere are many very good players but sometimes they're just not that interesting to watch. You know what I mean? I don't want to give specific examples because someone might take it the wrong way so I won't name anyone. But there are players who are phenomenal in terms of their physical attributes. Fast, explosive, effective. But they don't have charisma. That energy that makes people want to watch them. And I don't think that's their fault.

2:48:59Khabib NurmagomedovBut with Zidane, everything came together. You always wanted to watch him play. You always want to watch Ronaldo play. You always want to watch Beckham play. You want to watch Edgar Davids running around the field in those glasses. His hair bouncing behind him, right? You still wanted to watch the way Bartes played in goal. No matter how many bizarre goals he considered, you still wanted to watch him play. Or Oliver Khan, the way he stood in goal and directed the whole team. The way he would rush out to the ball.

2:49:29Khabib NurmagomedovThe way strikers were afraid of him. I mean, so many strikers have admitted that they were afraid if they found themselves one-on-one with Oliver Khan in the penalty area. You always wanted to watch Roberto Carlos take a free kick or storm down the left flank. You always wanted to see Cafu or Michel Salgado make an overlapping run. The way Vieira stood there as the defensive midfielder or somebody like Maldini or like Rio Ferdinand or somebody like that.

2:50:00Khabib NurmagomedovYou wanted to watch Casillas in Goal. So, you know, for me and maybe for our generation, those players had something special. Can you try to explain what charisma is? Like you said, they're good players and then there's Zidane. It's very difficult to explain. You either have it or you don't. Personality, right? Yes, but there are so many different forms of it. Zidane, in a way, almost moved slowly. In a way... But he'd carry the ball from midfield into attack incredibly quickly.

2:50:29Khabib NurmagomedovSo it's very hard to put into words hard to explain it and both Ronaldo's had that I mean the Brazilian Ronaldo to the way he played in those World Cups Yes, it was just phenomenal 98 2002 even in 2006 when he was already past his peak He was so fascinating to watch seriously How many people turned on their TVs just to watch Ronaldo people knew that was it that in 2010 he wouldn't be playing and even in 2006 he wasn't really in his prime But still so many people turned on the TV just to watch him play and Zidane 2006 was really You know the peak of that whole generation of legends that had been building since 98 2000 2002 and for all the cream of the crop came in most of them weren't at their physical peak anymore, but the names were still there Honestly, I think that

2:51:25Lex FridmanFor football fans, I'd recommend just looking up the teams and the lineups from the 2006 World Cup. Look at the rosters. Every single team had stars you wanted to watch. Mostly those who take the initiative.

2:51:54Khabib NurmagomedovYou like that? Yeah, definitely. I like players who are willing to take the initiative. I was recently talking to Zlatan about this and he said, it drives me crazy. When I have players on my team who, when you pass them the ball, they immediately get rid of it. They don't want to take the initiative. When you have three or more players on the team, if there are three people on the team who are not afraid to make mistakes, that's usually enough. They take the initiative, take control of the game, drive the team forward, make mistakes.

2:52:24Khabib NurmagomedovBut they keep trying. And then, there are others who hide, he says. They get the ball and immediately pass it to someone else. Just don't give it to me. Not me. Not me. They just want to get rid of the ball. It's like... You know? It's like something one of Zidane's coaches once said. If you don't know what to do with the ball, give it to Zidane. He'll figure it out, so... You see, that's the thing. It's a quality. Not every player has.

2:52:56Khabib NurmagomedovYou're taking the ball. You're taking responsibility. You're taking the initiative. You are not afraid to fail. You're not afraid to make a mistake. Cristiano had a moment like that. He missed a penalty and later, in the same match, he stepped up to take another one. Think about that. You take the first penalty. You miss it. Then another penalty comes along and you still step up to take it. Because if you miss two penalties in the same game, you're under a lot of pressure, right? But that's the point. You're not afraid to fail.

2:53:26Khabib NurmagomedovAs a leader, you take the initiative and you're willing to take risks. That's honestly the beauty of it. The beauty of sports in general. The bigger the risk, the bigger the potential for greatness. If there's no risk, then there's no... You can't make... Can't put yourself in the category of athletes people will talk about as some of the best ever. Especially when it's a high-level game like the World Cup and... Yes, the more risk, the sweeter the victory. There must be risk.

2:53:58Lex FridmanThat's why they often speak of Maradona as a great player. There are many great players. He's great. One of them, yeah. For many reasons. But one reason is that he kinda carried the team on his shoulders. He took the initiative and carried them. That's when he led Napoli, you know? When he led Napoli to the league title. Who knew Napoli then? Maradona came from Barcelona to Napoli and made them champions. And the whole stadium was named after him.

2:54:27Khabib NurmagomedovMany guys played in Napoli, but there was never anyone like Maradona. And recently I saw somewhere, or I think someone pointed out, the pressure on the guys who are transferring to Napoli. Whoever you are, you will always be in Maradona's shadow. And you stay in the shadow because fans will never give you the credit you might deserve because they will always compare you to him. Are you Maradona or not?

2:54:57Lex FridmanAnd if you're not Maradona, you will never get full recognition. I want to say that one of the things that makes Messi great, I think, is that he really had to live in such a shadow of Maradona, especially with the World Cup. Yes, it's not easy. And he came out of it. Hard to emerge from that shadow. Yes. And he won the World Cup, yeah. In that sense, you have to give Messi his due. I'm addressing the Real Madrid fans now.

2:55:25Lex FridmanHours, yours, both sides. You're explaining it to them? Yeah, yeah. I got you. Most of them, I think even if they don't like Barcelona, they still recognize Messi's greatness. I know that you met Zlatan, you talked to him. I think he's one of the most self-confident people in football, in the world in general. What do you think about this confidence? Of course, he's joking around a little bit, but I think he really believes in himself.

2:55:54Khabib NurmagomedovWell, yeah, he does, he does. I've known Zlatan for years now. We get along well, and I know his kids, and I like his personality. I like his confidence. I mean, he's a unique player. There are not many Zlatans in football. You know, wherever he played, he always scored. He's a goal scorer. He is that kind of center forward, and he always carried the team. He was a leader wherever he transferred. It doesn't matter. Milan, Inter, Juventus, when he moved to LA Galaxy, or Paris Saint-Germain he was a leader everywhere he went with the national team with his clubs he was always the guy driving the team forward taking the initiative and honestly he cemented his place as one of the greatest players to ever play the game and yeah maybe he was when it comes to trophies not individual achievements but team honors sweden wasn't such a wasn't exactly the greatest team

2:56:55Lex FridmanAnd some of the clubs he played for didn't always win the biggest trophies. But as an athlete, as an individual, as a person, he is a very strong athlete. We talked a lot about Dagestan, talked a lot about America. You're in Dubai a lot these days. Do you like it there? Also, you have spoken very highly about Sheikh Hamdan. What do you like about Dubai? What do you like about this region?

2:57:28Khabib NurmagomedovAnd what do you respect about Sheikh Hamdan? Our team has been in Dubai for 7-8 years now. We train at the Nadal Sheba Sports Complex. The NAS Sports Complex, this is under Sheikh Hamdan's office. It's like his home, his place. We train there, we eat there, we live there. Sheikh Hamdan helps us with everything and takes care of us. The way he treats us, what he does for us.

2:58:00Khabib NurmagomedovHis support is just limitless. He supports us in everything. And it's not just one, two or three years, it's already been seven or eight years. And I am very, very grateful to him. The way he welcomed us, took us in, and helped us, continues to help. It's hard to put it into words how grateful we are. Our entire team is very grateful to him. And he knows it. So in general, Dubai has become Actually the Emirates, Dubai and Abu Dhabi have become like a second home for us. And so it happened that over the last six or seven years, the UFC has been holding events in Abu Dhabi and the PFL has been putting on events in Dubai. These are two of the biggest MMA organizations in the world and a lot of our guys compete there. We arrive before the fight, we stay, we do training camps, they compete.

2:59:06Khabib NurmagomedovWe are incredibly fortunate that we have support at the government level. In Abu Dhabi, we've been supported by Sheikh Mohammed, Sheikh Tahnoon and Sheikh Mansour. And in Dubai, Sheikh Hamdan has really taken us in like his own team, like younger brothers. In that respect, we've been incredibly fortunate and our entire team is deeply grateful for their support. And they've created a country that has become one of the world's central hubs.

2:59:39Khabib NurmagomedovPeople from everywhere travel there. It's unique, right? The local population is only around one and they have million people, actually even less than that. But, you know, there's such an influx of tourists, people, business people, major events, and everything happening in terms of business and sports is just incredible. What's happening in Dubai and Abu Dhabi is, it's like nothing else. The only places you could really compare it to are major global cities like New York, London, Paris, Tokyo. But those are huge metropolitan areas with populations of well over 20 million people and they have centuries of history behind them. And here they've built cities, an entire country really, in just a few decades and turned it into a kind of magnet. It's like a magnet that attracts everyone.

3:00:38Khabib NurmagomedovThe country's location, its logistics. The sheer number of people coming in. Not just visiting, but wanting to move there, live there and start businesses. It's remarkable. It's a unique place in today's world. With everything that's happening around the globe right now, this country really stands out because of the opportunities it offers. It's unique in that sense. Now I'd like to ask you this. For you.

3:01:08Khabib NurmagomedovYour Muslim faith and God it's obviously central to your life and to who you are Can you explain? What role God plays in your life? Well, first of all I was born raised and brought up in a Muslim family in a Muslim community Since childhood religions always been the most important thing for me and when I say religion the first thing I mean is Salah namaz and by entire life in general My daily routine, the way I lived, trained, studied and everything else has always been built around Salah. The rest was scheduled around it. Even today, when I was choosing time for this podcast, I knew we'd be talking for couple of hours, so I deliberately picked a time right after the midday prayer. I pray, come here, finish up here with you and then go pray again. That's how my life's been and still is, and that's how it will continue to be, I hope.

3:02:16Khabib NurmagomedovI've always tried to organize my life around worship. Because first and foremost, my purpose in this life is to worship the one God. Everything that happens after that is secondary, so to speak, and faith in God and learning more and just striving to get closer to God that continues throughout our entire lives. So, in that regard, I'm very grateful to the Almighty for opening this door of understanding and reflection for me, for helping me realize that we are all servants of God and that our purpose in life is to serve one God. And as you were explaining, that helped you in your career in the sense that, you know, psychologically, by keeping you from letting success go to your head, that helped me with everything.

3:03:19Khabib NurmagomedovI've always placed my only hope in the Almighty. Whatever situation I might face, I've always believed that only the Almighty can truly make it easier for me. And when it comes to not letting success go to your head, not becoming proud, not becoming full of yourself, religion and my faith in Allah have helped me with that too. I truly believe that only faith can help a person get through life's hardest trials and sometimes I think about people who are who suffer the loss of a loved one someone very close to them for example when I lost my father I remember thinking to myself if I didn't believe in the Almighty if I didn't have faith in God and Understand that it was predestined that we all come into this world and then leave it that no one stays here forever That no one belongs to anyone

3:04:22Khabib Nurmagomedovand we all belong to the Almighty. And that we will all return to Him. I don't know how I would have coped with it. I'm a very emotional person. I think it would have been extremely difficult for me to go through all of that without faith. In that sense, I feel fortunate to have this understanding. So faith really helped you when you lost your father. This was the only thing that helped. Nothing else worked. I know a couple of people who...

3:04:52Khabib Nurmagomedovhave lost someone very close to them and they struggle to accept it. They would ask, why, why, why? So many questions. I told them to answer that question, you need to go deeper into religion and try to understand. Why were you even born in the first place? And why do these thoughts even come into your head? And what if you didn't have any thoughts at all? What if you couldn't think, couldn't understand anything?

3:05:22Khabib NurmagomedovThese thoughts, this awareness, your mind, your abilities, none of that was there before. Then it appeared. Why? That's the question. None of us existed. Then we were born, we were little, we weren't aware of anything, we didn't remember anything. Then little by little, we grew up and became adults. We became successful, became somebody. We became who we are. So, why did all of this come specifically to you? There are so many questions like that.

3:05:52Khabib NurmagomedovAnd so, these questions are, let's say, a kind of guide through life. And for me, that's what religion is. It guides me and helps me. You often say, Alhamdulillah, I'll praise the God. That's very powerful, that sense of gratitude. Can you tell us, can you explain why you say it so often? You know they're saying, the tongue speaks what the heart is full of. The way you speak shows what's in your heart.

3:06:28Khabib NurmagomedovIf you have something dark in your heart, your words will show it, no doubt. We all have some dark parts in our hearts. Every single person has them. Sometimes they come out in what we say, how we express ourselves, what we share with people and so on. Everyone has that. But if your heart is mostly good and pure, then that will also be reflected in your speech. And I just like.

3:07:02Khabib Nurmagomedovpraising the Almighty and giving all the credit for my success back to him because everything we have is given to us by the Almighty. Throughout the history, there have been many people who made big mistakes after becoming successful, powerful and wealthy. And they started saying, no, no, this happened to me because I'm so great, because I'm so... I'm so intelligent, because I had vision.

3:07:34Khabib Nurmagomedovbecause I've got the brains, because I'm extremely capable. That's why all of this came my way. But at the same time, there were many others who worked just as hard, who weren't any less intelligent and the Almighty just didn't give it to them. He chose you and gave it to you. And you just have to give the credit back to him. You shouldn't take the credit for yourself. That's what I believe.

3:08:04Khabib Nurmagomedovand it's something I've come to through studying my religion. I understand that everything the Almighty has given to me is not because of who I am. It's simply something God has given me as a test to test me and in the end, see which of my deeds outweigh the others, the good or the bad. Because as a believer, I believe that there will be judgment and everything we have, everything we do, every action we take.

3:08:38Khabib NurmagomedovWe will be held accountable for it. There will be a day of judgment. There will be scales and everything will be weighed. What advice would you give young people about life and their careers? Millions of people are watching you and deeply respect you. What would you say about how to live your life and How do you find your path and stay on it? Well, I wouldn't want to speak just from my own perspective. I'd rather bring people Back to the scripture to what the Almighty said read That's the first word revealed in the Holy Quran. The first command is read or ikran So to everyone listening to or watching this podcast I would want to bring them back to that Read meaning what educate yourself observe learn improve, but don't stay in one place and anything a person is

3:09:47Khabib Nurmagomedovtruly looking for. If they genuinely want to find it, not just find an answer, but find the truth. They can reach it, but they can never reach it without reading. They need to read. When a person reads, what they read, enters them, into their body, their heart, their mind and it triggers a search. A search for knowledge begins inside them, but if you don't read, you won't find anything.

3:10:15Khabib NurmagomedovJust listening to someone is one thing, but reading is something different. So my advice would be read and find within yourself the strength to come closer to one God and seek to understand why we were sent here in the first place. Today, you and me were almost the same age. So let's just think about this. For example, my grandfather on my mother's side passed away.

3:10:47Khabib Nurmagomedovin 2003 now it's 2026 he's been lying in the grave for 23 years and then there was his grandfather or let's say his great-grandfather who also died and has been in the grave for over a hundred years roughly speaking but what about people who died 2000 years ago they've been in the grave for 2000 years what's next it's a good question isn't it they've just been in the grave all this time and that's it So what was the purpose of their life? A person has been in the grave for 2,000 years, but maybe live for 70 years. Roughly speaking, let's say 100. They live for 100 years and have been in the grave for 2,000. So what matters more, those 100 years? Or these 2,000 years? And what happens after those 2,000 years end? People believe different things, whether there is a day of judgment or not.

3:11:53Khabib Nurmagomedovthat's where the difference lies between a believer and a non-believer. After everyone is resurrected, there will be the day of judgment, there will be judgment, and after that, people will enter eternity. Eternity, compared to eternity, what are 2,000 years? They're nothing. And we live for, let's say, 70 years. And many people choose those 70 years over eternal life. And if a person understands that these 70 years they have here, Roughly speaking 70 or 80 years are meant to be used to prepare for what comes after so that when the day of judgment arrives and after that judgment they can live forever not in hell but in heaven. If that becomes their ultimate goal then they will strive to do good deeds because they will fear the day of judgment. And that's really what life is about. Preparing yourself for the day of judgment. That's true to truly understand life and its deeper meaning.

3:12:56Khabib Nurmagomedovyou have to think about eternity. Only then can you really understand your role. Actually, it can keep a person away from evil. From evil and... and it can stop them from treating other people badly. It can hold a person back. But if you don't have that understanding, if a person lives completely convinced that there's nothing after death, what's there to stop him from doing evil? Just like that. What do you think? And on top of that...

3:13:27Khabib Nurmagomedovand even more dangerous combination. You become powerful, wealthy, and you become famous. What now? Suddenly every door is open to you. Just imagine a person like that. And on top of all that, he doesn't believe in the day of judgment. He doesn't believe he'll be held accountable for his actions. That's... You know, it's like a nuclear bomb. He can end up causing harm to people everywhere. But if you know that for everything you have here, you'll eventually have to answer that there will be a day of judgement and that you'll be called to account. And if you fail that test, you'll burn in hell forever. That'll make you rain yourself in a little. You'll have to take that into consideration. You'll have to tighten things up a little. You'll begin to understand that you're not nearly as important as the image you've created of yourself in your own mind. You start becoming more.

3:14:31Lex FridmanAs Americans say, down to earth, you become more grounded. You're not flying, you're walking on the ground. You once put it beautifully. You can allow money and fame to stay in your hand, but not in your heart. Yes, you've still got many years ahead of you, but you're already an example of someone who's become famous, made money, and remained the same person. If money stays in your hands and not in your heart, that's a good thing.

3:15:05Khabib Nurmagomedovbut the moment it gets into a person's heart, it corrupts them. Once it's there, it's very difficult to pull it out of your heart. If you have wealth in your hands and use it properly for good causes, for the right purposes, for people in need, for your family, relatives, friends, people from your hometown, that's a good thing. But as soon as that wealth gets into your heart, it becomes very difficult to share it with others. And this is...

3:15:33Lex FridmanThis is a very dangerous, very dangerous place for a person to end up. And I'm sorry, but as a believer, I believe that most people in hell will be wealthy. One of the reasons millions of people find you so interesting to watch is that you're constantly growing. First, you were a great fighter. Now you're becoming a leader. Your wisdom just keeps increasing.

3:16:05Lex FridmanYou're evolving as a person, but still the core values remain. It's good to see inspiring for people Money and fame haven't changed you. You're just growing as a human being as you always have. I hope it's in the right direction. It's just the thing is people only see the good They don't see the bad true and we all have the good side and the bad side Everyone sadly and especially when it comes to celebrities

3:16:33Khabib NurmagomedovWe only see we only show the best side of ourselves Even even when you post photos you only post the good ones the pictures where you look your best So I hope that The way people see me as you pointed out is the way I really am Because it's difficult to judge yourself objectively. You're always biased when it comes to yourself. That's how it is We tend to think highly of ourselves, right?

3:17:06Khabib NurmagomedovYou can't really see yourself objectively. We hide our flaws and put our best qualities on display. Sometimes people even start believing in a fake version of themselves. For me, I try to stay on the honest path throughout my life to remain true to who I really am and to show my true self to people.

3:17:34Khabib NurmagomedovMaybe not everyone agrees with my behavior, my opinions, my worldview or my attitude towards towards sports, religion and other things. Not everyone shares my views. Not everyone is a fan of mine. There are people who let's say see me very differently. So I'm just I've tried. I continue to try to be who I am. That's all. And I hope that that my ending

3:18:11Lex Fridmanwill be a good one too well you know at least that's my hope you've stayed the same but you've also grown i mean today you even managed to say something nice about barça so see that's progress yeah well done come on without barcelona there wouldn't be real madrid if the spanish league didn't have either real madrid or barcelona it just wouldn't be the same they've been competing against each other for how many years 120

3:18:40Khabib NurmagomedovIt's hard to imagine Barcelona and Real Madrid without each other. And so is the Spanish League without their rivalry. Yes. It's impossible to imagine. So, yeah, we have to give you some credit. But Real Madrid is the Royal Club. Come on. It's the best, you know. And thanks to both of them, we've been able to enjoy truly incredible football for so many years. For so many years, yeah. Habib brother, I don't even have the words to explain.

3:19:08Lex Fridmanhow honored I am that you're here talking with me today and showing me so much warmth. There's no way to fully express what you mean to millions of your fans around the world, including me. Thank you so much for everything. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you. Thank you very much, Lex. Thank you for listening to this conversation with Habib Nurmagomedov. And again, thank you for everything. I love you all. Goodbye, my friends. See you next time.