← All shows

State of AI with Nathan Benaich - Compute scarcity is an engineering problem

Published Jun 30, 2026 · Duration 7:59 · Language en · 8 highlights

Summary

这期播客围绕11 Labs研究工程师Angelos Paravolaropolis在Rise 2026的演讲,核心论点是:算力稀缺本质上是一个工程问题。GPU供不应求、采购周期长达数月,而需求却呈指数级增长,因此唯一诚实的应对方式是把现有硬件用到极致。演讲以语音推理工作负载为例,用「每块GPU服务的用户数」作为衡量标准,展示了如何从最初的1个用户,通过常规工程手段提升到70个,再通过前沿架构改造达到140个。技术阶梯逐级展开:连续批处理(continuous batching)是最大的单项收益,把GPU从服务1个用户提升到15个;随后是FP8量化压缩权重、推测解码与多token预测、以及最具风险但收益最大的KV缓存压缩。每一项技术都有代价——批处理增加延迟、量化损失质量、KV缓存压缩最容易降低输出质量,真正的问题是你能承受多少退化而非能否避免。Angelos也直言论文与生产环境之间存在鸿沟:许多号称「无损」的压缩方法只在少数基准上调过参,扩展到数百万用户时可能彻底失效。更深层的意义在于经济学:当今的token价格被补贴了约10到40倍,他希望靠优化而非补贴来弥合差距,并预期更小的「sonic级」模型足以胜任几乎所有日常使用,让经济账从补贴回归工程。

Highlights

  1. There are not enough GPUs and no near-term fix. They're hard to find. And once you do, procurement can run for months before they serve traffic. Demand, meanwhile, climbs exponentially.

    GPU根本不够用,而且短期内无解。它们很难找到,即便找到了,采购流程也可能要跑上几个月才能投入服务流量。与此同时,需求却在呈指数级攀升。

    Frames the central scarcity premise of the whole talk
  2. His talk measured how far that goes, counted in users served per GPU, from 1 to 70 with standard engineering, and to 140 at the frontier.

    他的演讲衡量了这条路能走多远,用「每块GPU服务的用户数」来计量:常规工程手段能从1做到70,前沿手段能做到140。

    The memorable quantified spine of the entire argument
  3. Angelus noted that Quen3's cache costs almost three times as much per token as Quen2.5's despite near identical parameter accounts. So two models of the same size can cost wildly different amounts to run.

    Angelos指出,尽管参数量几乎相同,Qwen3每个token的缓存成本却是Qwen2.5的近三倍。所以两个同样大小的模型,运行成本可能天差地别。

    Surprising counterintuitive claim that size doesn't determine cost
  4. Continuous batching fixes that. It batches at the level of each decode or prefill step, so a new request can join a GPU already mid-flight on others. That one change takes 11 labs from serving one customer per GPU to 15.

    连续批处理解决了这个问题。它在每个解码或预填充步骤的层级上做批处理,于是新请求可以加入一块已经在为其他请求运行的GPU。仅这一个改动,就让11 Labs从每块GPU服务1个客户提升到15个。

    The single biggest engineering win, with a 15x jump
  5. Teaching a model to anticipate several moves ahead, like a chess player, tends to make it more stable and sometimes faster to learn.

    教模型像下棋的棋手那样提前预判好几步,往往能让它更稳定,有时学得也更快。

    Vivid chess analogy explaining why multi-token prediction helps
  6. The much discussed Google method TurboQuant was announced as lossless, but in his experience proved lossy in practice because any change to the cache is hard for the model to recover from.

    备受讨论的谷歌方法TurboQuant被宣称为无损,但在他的经验里实际上是有损的,因为对缓存的任何改动都很难被模型恢复过来。

    Strong opinion debunking a widely-hyped 'lossless' claim
  7. Many compression methods that report no loss of accuracy were tuned on a handful of benchmarks and scaled to millions of users they can simply fall apart. You often only find out which ones once they're popular enough to be stress tested in the wild.

    许多声称没有精度损失的压缩方法只是在少数几个基准上调过参,一旦扩展到数百万用户就可能彻底崩溃。你往往只有等到它流行到在真实环境中被压力测试时,才会发现哪些方法不行。

    Blunt insight on the gap between papers and production
  8. Today's token prices are subsidized by one audience estimate a factor of 10 to 40. Angelos' hope is that optimization, not subsidy, eventually closes that gap.

    据现场一位听众估计,如今的token价格被补贴了10到40倍。Angelos的希望是,最终靠优化而非补贴来弥合这个差距。

    Reveals the startling economics hidden behind token pricing
Full transcript

Compute scarcity is an engineering problem. With Angeles Paravolaropolis, a research engineer at 11 labs at Rise 2026, there are not enough GPUs and no near-term fix. They're hard to find. And once you do, procurement can run for months before they serve traffic. Demand, meanwhile, climbs exponentially. Angeles Paravolaropolis built his Rise talk on that mismatch. And on the only honest response to it, if you cannot add hardware, you make the most of what you have.

For the voice inference workload he walked through, his talk measured how far that goes, counted in users served per GPU, from 1 to 70 with standard engineering, and to 140 at the frontier. Angelos leads 11 labs speech-to-text and text-to-speech teams and built its Scribe and Scribe real-time transcription systems. The Scribe V2 models he shipped this past year rank, he says, as the most accurate transcription models on most popular benchmarks.

It gives him a particular vantage on the problem, since voice models live or die on latency and cost at scale. It is also the second year running 11 Labs has taken the rise stage. In 2025, its CEO, Mati Stanisiewski, spoke on the voice frontier. This year, we dove into the engine room. What a token actually costs. Every optimization starts with knowing what you're paying for. For the autoregressive transformers behind most popular LLMs, A token's cost reduces to two bottlenecks. Compute, how fast the GPU does the matrix multiplications and memory bandwidth, how fast the GPU's VRAM can load the model's weights, and its KV cache. Generation runs in two phases. A pre-fill step reads the whole prompt and fills the KV cache, the model's working state, and is compute heavy. A decode step then emits tokens one at a time, each conditioned on the last, and is memory heavy.

The KV cache is what lets the model reuse that pre-fill instead of recomputing it for every new token. And at scale, it is the thing that hurts. 100 concurrent requests need 100 separate caches resident in memory. Size is not destiny either. Angelus noted that Quen3's cache costs almost three times as much per token as Quen2.5's despite near identical parameter accounts. So two models of the same size can cost wildly different amounts to run. Stop letting the GPU sit idle.

The first and biggest single win is batching. GPS are excellent at parallel work and poor at sequential work, and the dominant cost in decoding is loading the model weights, which can be shared across every request in a batch rather than reloaded for each. Naive batching groups requests once and then waits for the slowest one to finish while the GPU idles. Continuous batching fixes that. It batches at the level of each decode or prefill step.

so a new request can join a GPU already mid-flight on others. That one change takes 11 labs from serving one customer per GPU to 15. Shrink the weights, then the cache. With the GPU busy, the constraint becomes memory, so the next moves all reduce it. Quantization comes first. Models are usually trained at BF16, 16 bits per weight, which is more precision than they need. Dropping the weights to FP8 roughly halves their footprint with near lossless accuracy.

given H100 class hardware and a little quantizerware training, which injects noise into the gradient so the model learns to tolerate the lower precision. That buys headroom for more cache and lifts throughput to 20 users per GPU. The more aggressive options exist too. Int4 is lossy but useful on-device, and MXFP4 reaches 4 bits but only on Blackwell and newer. Speculative decoding comes next.

A cheap draft model proposes tokens and the big model verifies them in a single forward pass, accepting the run until the two disagree. It only pays off when the models agree often, which they frequently do not, so in practice it is used less than its reputation suggests. Applied here it nudges the running total from 20 to 28 users per GPU. The more popular cousin is multi-token prediction, where the same model wears extra prediction heads and drafts several tokens itself.

with no second model to host. It earns its keep with two or more heads, and it doubles as a training signal. Teaching a model to anticipate several moves ahead, like a chess player, tends to make it more stable and sometimes faster to learn. Most big labs use it, and it lands in the same place, around 28 users per GPU. The largest gain is also the riskiest. The KV cache holds far less redundant capacity than the weights do, so compressing it is genuinely lossy.

Angeles was candid about this from his own testing. The much discussed Google method TurboQuant was announced as lossless, but in his experience proved lossy in practice because any change to the cache is hard for the model to recover from. The fix is again on the training side. Distill the model so it grows accustomed to a lower precision FP8 cache and you keep most of the accuracy while shrinking the cache 2.5 times.

That single step lifts throughput from 28 to 70 users per GPU, 70 times what the same hardware served at the start, where the frontier labs go. 70 is what discipline engineering gets you. Going further means changing the architecture itself, and here the labs are placing different bets. DeepSeq's multi-head latent attention squeezes each token's key value pair into a small latent rather than storing it in full.

which both speeds inference and stretches context toward a million tokens. It was one of the more copied ideas after DeepSeq R1. QuenSwap's standard quadratic attention for a linear network on every other layer, cheaper and longer context, at some cost to quality. NVIDIA goes furthest, replacing the transformer on a fraction of its layers with state space models that scale linearly and compute faster, keeping enough transformer layers to hold accuracy up.

With architecture level changes like these, the ladder reaches roughly 140 users per GPU. Nothing here is free. Angelos was careful not to oversell any of it. Every technique on the ladder carries a cost. Batching adds latency and runs into a memory ceiling. FP8. Quantization takes a small quality hit without the extra training. Speculative decoding needs access to weights and a training pipeline to work well. KV cache compression is the one most likely to degrade output.

So the real question is how much degradation you can absorb rather than whether you can avoid it. He was blunter still about the gap between papers and production. Many compression methods that report no loss of accuracy were tuned on a handful of benchmarks and scaled to millions of users they can simply fall apart. You often only find out which ones once they're popular enough to be stress tested in the wild. Which technique pays depends entirely on the workload.

The reason any of this matters beyond the engineering reached the room through a question from the floor. Today's token prices are subsidized by one audience estimate a factor of 10 to 40. Angelos' hope is that optimization, not subsidy, eventually closes that gap. The largest models, he said, have to be subsidized to make economic sense. But he expects smaller, sonic class models to become good enough for nearly all everyday use at margins that actually work.

He already sees the shape of it in agent systems, route each request to the smallest model that can handle it, and reserve the expensive one for planning. Eleven Labs, whose models are smaller by design, is betting on the same logic, squeeze the hardware hard enough, and the economics start to look less like subsidy and more like engineering.

Delete this episode?

This removes the episode page and its saved audio from this library.