The Daily - Billy Strings Escaped the Darkness. He_s Playing to Not Go Back

0:04David MarcheseI'm David Marchese, and today I'm talking to musical sensation Billy Strings. At 33 years old, Strings is bringing his blend of music influenced by bluegrass artists like Doc Watson and Bill Monroe and jam bands like The Grateful Dead to sold out arenas across the country. He grew up in Michigan, surrounded by poverty and heavy drug use. His new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is inspired by his mother, who died about a year ago of an overdose.

0:32David MarcheseOne of my favorite tracks, Mill Town Flood, is a melancholy story song, which is built on strings' beautiful guitar playing. That guitar playing, I got to witness firsthand in our second interview, which you'll want to stick around for. Here's my conversation with Billy Strings. But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now explore the Times for free without paywalls during your first month in the New York Times app.

1:11David MarcheseJust download the app and we hope you enjoy it. Okay on to the interview Thank you for taking the time to do this. I appreciate it. Yeah, of course You know I wanted to ask you're playing all you know all these sold out shows across the country this summer and later in the summer you're even doing your own Festival it's pretty wild for someone who got their start playing bluegrass music and still plays music That's so informed by traditional bluegrass music to like just have achieved what you've achieved

1:43Billy StringsWas there a moment for you that stands out as sort of representing when you realize like, oh, this has actually gotten really big? Yeah. I went from playing in my bedroom to playing in coffee houses and pubs and restaurants and stuff like that. And eventually I was able to put in my two weeks at my day job, which was working at a hotel up in Traverse City. And at that point I thought, man.

2:12Billy StringsIf I never get any bigger than this, I'd be happy. I'm making a live and playing music. I remember when I put out my first record, Turmoil and Tinfoil, I never thought about how the record would be like good for my career. I was just trying to record these songs. I wrote down a bunch of stuff that was personal to me and it was kind of like writing in my diary or something and I just wanted to make this art and I was really focused on that.

2:41David MarcheseAnd then I remember when we actually sold some records and I was like, whoa, it was just kind of a big eye-opener to me. I never thought about the record helping to further my career. Can you tell me about the title of the new album, So Much for Goodbyes? What does that mean? Where does it come from? Yeah. My mom passed away last June, just over a year ago. I was actually on my way to a show in Kentucky and...

3:13Billy StringsI just woke up the next morning on the bus, and my wife came back, and she told me the news. And to me, it was this kind of sad thing, this idea that I didn't get to say goodbye. But when I told my manager about the title, he's kind of like, man, I like that, because it's not really goodbye. She's in everything, and she's everywhere, and I'm her one of her greatest creations. She was so artistic and so creative that...

3:43David MarcheseAnd she made me and my brother and sister. And so I like the idea that it can kind of be taken both ways. You know, so much for goodbyes, like I didn't get to say goodbye, but also so much for goodbyes because it's not really goodbye. I'm sorry for your loss. If you don't mind me asking it, how did your mom pass away? She struggled her whole life with different...

4:11Billy Stringskinds of substance abuses. And I think she had a lot of unresolved trauma that she never really had like proper therapy for. And I think that was her way of kind of getting through some of that was medicating herself. And so she had an illness that eventually she succumbed to. So she died of an overdose. And it was a shocked to me because I I had no idea that she was using again and she seemed to be doing really well and her addiction you know has caused a lot of trauma and stuff in my own life and it's she's kind of like a conundrum because she's such a beautiful amazing artistic and just an amazing person there's I've never met anybody like her

5:10Billy StringsYou know, we always talked about having her make the art for the next record cover. She was an artist. She always was making art. These little shadow boxes and mixed media art and she would always be collecting kind of these little trinkets and pieces of junk and stuff and she would take all this forgotten rusty old crap and glue it together to make something beautiful. So even before this record was...

5:36Billy StringsBefore I had any of the songs for it. She was gonna make the next record cover That was our our goal and our dream and I told her you know you can make the next record cover, you know with your art and We did we got to make her piece of art the record cover which I was really really stoked on it was actually the piece that she was working on The night she died it was the last thing she touched Are there songs on the album that?

6:06David MarcheseAllow you to feel like you're saying things to her that you would have said that you didn't get a chance to say? Yeah, I think the big one on this record when it comes to that sort of thing is It's called still I crash and I wrote that song not too long after she died and That's the one that's pretty blatantly kind of me talking to her You know just wondering where she went asking her where did she go and why and explaining the fact that I feel like I have to learn how to walk again like a child. And yeah, just how difficult it is to be here without her. Yeah, it's hard. You know, my mom died two years ago. She had had ALS and then she did, they call it medical aid in dying. Like, you know, she decided she didn't want to.

7:10David MarcheseBe around anymore and suffer so she had someone come and help her but I I Was able to say what I wanted to say to her because we knew when it was gonna happen But then my dad died at the end of April it was sort of like your mom completely unexpected I had a hard relationship with him but just when you don't When you don't have the chance to say things that you feel like you wanted to say it's a It's like an open wound that you're not sure when it's gonna close whereas with my mom I feel like there aren't unanswered questions or there wasn't anything left unsaid so the grief feels very very different Yeah, absolutely. It's a it's not better or worse either way. I don't think and it's just one of those things we have to learn to live with you know and try to just remember who she was and and love and cherish her memory and live up to her

8:07Billy Stringsshe's inspired me to really let loose and let my freak flag fly a little bit more, live more the way she lived than trying to be so cautious all the time. I feel like I've always tried to stay out of trouble and do the best I can to just not get myself hung up, but my mom would just live life to the fullest constantly.

8:38David Marcheseyou know, she inspires me to kind of live a little bit more on the wild side, you know. And how does playing music help process the feelings that you have, whether it's about your mom or anything else? Well, it's always been my coping mechanism and survival strategy and my medicine, you know. And playing bluegrass music is, it's like a portal back to my childhood.

9:10Billy StringsBack before I knew anything dirty about the earth. I think it's it's a way for me to go back to a time that was just beautiful and full of light and You know it can give me deja vu Stuff like that, you know growing up playing music with my dad and then songwriting and stuff like that. It's kind of my cathartic and therapeutic way of dealing with things I think sublimation is one of my

9:42David MarcheseMy main characteristics that I that I do in life. I just try to Instead of letting this this hard stuff drag me down I try to just make art from it, you know make lemonade if you will You know when you were a kid, I know You know sort of maybe a chaotic way that you grew up in in Michigan You mentioned your mom's substance of use problems and you referred to your dad and he is your dad but Technically speaking, it's your stepfather, right? Because your your biological father died when you were really young, from an overdose. It just sounds hard. But how did music fit into your family life? Like, what role did it play for you growing up in the family? You know, my biological father died before I ever knew him. I was two years old. And so when I say my dad, I'm speaking of Terry Barber.

10:37Billy StringsAnd he taught me how to tie my shoes and wipe my ass and how to play guitar and all that. And I think early on it was a way for me to bond with him. And the better I got, I kind of, you know, would get attention from that. And I think I liked that. So I just kept trying to get better and better and make him proud. And I still do that to this day. I mean, even...

11:06Billy StringsBack when my mom was still alive, anytime I would reach some sort of milestone, you know, I remember one of the last ones was when I played with Bob Dylan, you know, I'm calling my mom right before walking on stage and I'm like, you're never going to believe this. I'm getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. But back when I was a kid, before any of the fame and all this stuff, it was just kind of our way of life, you know? I mean, it was like, it's just what we did.

11:34Billy StringsWe just played music around my house. If I wasn't playing old bluegrass tunes with my dad, I was listening to my mom playing Beatles records and stuff like that, and I remember being a little kid. This is kind of a good portrait of how my mother was. I was probably maybe seven years old, and she was playing the Beatles record, the white album, backwards for me.

12:03David MarcheseListening to revolution number nine right for secret messages or something Yeah, she was backwards masking kind of showing me all how this stuff works, and I was just just a little kid like What the heck? But it music was always yeah, it was always a big a big deal, you know what you just described sounds very Boyant and positive and that was a natural part of how you were growing up, but then there was this sort of other Darker side was it hard for you to make sense of the light and the dark in your family at the same time Or was it just that's just what you knew and so you didn't really think about it? Well, I mean early on it wasn't so bad, you know, I think By the time I was old enough to kind of remember stuff like four years old or so My parents were doing pretty good. There was just some bush lights and you know a few joints here and there it wasn't

13:01Billy Stringsanything hard or crazy. So my early childhood was really beautiful and surrounded by music and friends. And we had food in the cupboards. You know, we lived in a trailer, but it was a nice trailer. And we got out of the trailer park and we got this place over in Muir. And, you know, we had a swimming pool and my mom was digging in her garden and things were good. And then it just started to go downhill.

13:32Billy StringsBy the time I was 10, 11, 12, we moved into this other house that was a lot more kind of run down. And I think my dad lost his job and we just started struggling a lot more financially. That was at the same time that my parents were kind of falling into this addiction. And then after quite a few years of that, I just moved out. I moved out of my mom's house when I was 13.

14:03Billy StringsI was trying to like guilt trip him into seeing what they were doing, you know? I mean, there wasn't any food. My house was no longer a home. So I took off. My friend Brad came and picked me up in his truck, and I went and stayed in his basement for a while. And I was playing in the heavy metal band at that time. And I kind of was just couch surfing. And when I realized that me moving out wasn't going to change anything, that's when I was like, oh no, I actually...

14:36Billy StringsNow I'm actually kind of homeless, you know When I moved out I was trying to cause a big scene To try to guilt-trip people into realizing what was going on, but it didn't work So then I had to just figure it out But eventually, you know, I never disowned my parents or I never like cut ties with them and it actually became this kind of era of I was a young teenager and I was starting into trying things myself and Eventually it became a really cool party house because I could show up there with several carloads full of miners and a bunch of half gallons of whiskey and stuff and like we can party at my house my mom's you know and They couldn't tell me no My dad would always be like you're not having all these miners drinking here. I'm like, okay. Well, what are you gonna do call the cops?

15:36Billy StringsYou know, so I eventually just started partying with them and You know When you lose people to addiction like that, especially as a young kid You almost wonder why or what it is that's so powerful that basically took them from me I mean, I remember a time That's actually what the song turmoil and tinfoil is about. I was staring right at my mother. She's sitting right there, but I missed her Yeah, she's not herself anymore Her soul and her beautiful vibrancy is gone. It's just this kind of gray shell of a person that is really sick so You know you wonder yourself. What is this stuff all about? So, you know, I was 16 the first time I smoked meth with my mom and around that time is when I you know I was probably 15 when I started doing coke and

16:38Billy StringsBy the time I was 16, I was doing speed and trying crack and stuff. And then a couple years later after that, I kind of got wondering about my father, my biological father. I never knew him. And I always kind of thought, man, he must have loved heroin more than me. So I always wondered what was so good that it was better than me. So that's when I would try heroin and stuff like that. Because I just had to see what it was all about.

17:10Billy StringsSo I don't know I got a lot of that stuff out of my system early on Yeah, and I think it was a good thing I never really got hooked on anything because I was always surrounded by by tweakers and junkies and stuff So I I saw how bad these people's lives were and I never wanted to let myself get that far So if I if I tried anything out of curiosity, I would try at once and I would leave it alone for a while You know, but when you were younger and partying with your Parents, I would bet that there was some part of you inside that felt conflicted about it or felt uncomfortable with it Did you and your mom and your dad ever talk about that period in in your life when you were sharing that kind of stuff? No, it was just what it was I mean sometimes, you know, we'd get high and I would play guitar with my dad until the sun came up I mean ours and again Now we're bonding again. Yeah, and that felt good You know you had this

18:11David Marcheseodd situation where you're playing guitar with your dad and you were getting praised for it and you're getting attention for it, even if sort of like the circumstances in which it was occurring were kind of rough circumstances. But when did you realize that you were actually good at guitar? Not just that you could pick a tune, but that you had a real gift for it. I mean, that was early on. I started playing when I was about four years old.

18:41Billy StringsBy the time I was six or seven I could carry a tune and and I was my dad's rhythm player He would play all the lead and do all the fancy picking and singing and I would hold down the rhythm for him So by the time I was six or seven I knew a lot of bluegrass songs and One of the biggest moments for me was I was sitting in my dad's bedroom with them as I would basically every night I'm sitting there playing two guitars and he was teaching me the song Beaumont rag And we would play the tune and I would mess up the second part every time. And I stopped us right in the middle of the song. I said, stop. Why don't you just play it and let me listen. And so that's what we did. I just listened to him playing it. And instead of trying to count, you know, one, two, three, four on the D chord and one, two, three, four on the A chord.

19:40Billy StringsI listened to what he was playing. I listened to the melody. And so then I was like, all right, let me try it again. And instead of counting, I was just, I heard the melody. I heard what he was doing. Yeah, he was queuing you, right? Exactly, yeah. And so that, and then I nailed it. And he was awful proud. He called my grandma, made her listen on the phone. And that was a big moment for me because he was awful proud. And I was proud. And that's when that sort of this listening thing started. When I was able to listen to the music more intently, and I could tell what chord was coming next, I used to think I was magic or something. I mean, I had no concept of music theory or anything, but my dad would play, you know, maybe a G chord, and then he would play a G seventh, and my ear would just lead me to the, I'm like, well, the next chord's probably gonna be a C, and then it would be.

20:41David MarcheseI think bluegrass and folk music and hillbilly music like that, it's kind of better to learn it that way than to try to learn it from some academic point of view. It's better to learn it on the back porch and to let it just get under your skin because then it's not some equation. It's a feeling. It comes from your soul. Was there a time when you started to really think that that music and pursuing music could be a way into a different kind of life than the one you were living? Did you think of it as like a way out? I never considered that, um, growing up in the area that I did and just growing up the way that I did, seeing music as a career, you know, it just kind of seemed like a really far-fetched idea. Although when I was younger...

21:38Billy Stringsmiddle school and stuff. I used to think I was going to be the next Jimi Hendrix or something. I used to dream about being a big rock star. But as I got a little older, I sort of realized that, like I said, it's far-fetched. But I never thought of it as a career until I started kind of... I went out and did some open mic nights out there in Traverse City just for fun. Just because my friends and I would be at home and let's go to the bar and...

22:06Billy StringsI could sign up and play a few tunes, and this was before I was even old enough to be in the bar. And I'd go up there and play a few tunes, flat pick a little number, and people would... I'd get a standing ovation. And I started to realize, wow, this flat picking stuff, this bluegrass stuff really gets people out of their seats. I mean, it's always been to me just something that I did around the house with my dad or whatever. Something that I like because it brings me back to my childhood.

22:37David MarcheseBut people really react to it. And it's when I started to kind of realize, man, maybe I do have something here. And it's kind of like, wow, these people never heard of Doc Watson before or what? Well, but as someone who knows about the predecessors, who knows Doc Watson, who knows Tony Rice, or one of my favorite players is Clarence White. Ever listen to him? Of course. Yeah, beautiful player.

23:08David MarcheseThose are some of the greatest musicians who have ever lived. They played this incredibly beautiful music with such skill and heart. And they never attracted tens of thousands of people to arenas or had sort of the mass success that you've been able to have. Do you ever wonder like why you and not them? You must wonder about that, right? Um, yeah. I mean...

23:39Billy StringsOn one hand, I don't know. At a certain point I stopped, you know, like wearing a suit and combing my hair back with pomade and trying to pretend like I was born in the Appalachian mountains and my, you know, daddy was a coal miner and kind of doing this whole civil war reenactment. And I started just being myself. And I also...

24:07Billy Stringsallowed the other influences from other kinds of music that I enjoyed. You know, I enjoy everything from hip-hop to jazz and classic rock and heavy metal and, you know, death metal and hardcore and I played in heavy metal bands and stuff. So I feel like my whole brain is just this kind of musical goulash that's just all mixed together. And when I stop trying to just be one thing, And I just allowed myself to enjoy and basically accept all of those influences in my own music. I feel like there's a very broad spectrum of people that what I do can attract. Everyone from metalheads to old bluegrassers to people that are into more improvisational music like The Grateful Dead. I mean, I got people from young teenagers.

25:05Billy Stringsto 70, 80 year old people in my crowd. And I play a little bit for all of them. I also, I've just always paid attention to, at least when I started to have a career in music, I paid attention to the marketing side of it too. The way that different bands from different genres would promote themselves. You know, bluegrass is an old tradition and it's stayed.

25:33Billy StringsKind of in the past in a lot of ways, you know, I remember when I was coming up a lot of the flyers for a concert or something it would look like look like a elementary school newsletter, you know, meanwhile I see these rappers and stuff You know when they promote a concert they have a video and everything it looks like a movie You know, and so I thought man we should do that or we should Kind of mix these different ideas from different genres and stuff and just

26:05David Marchesemix the way that different artists promote themselves and try to bring that over to the bluegrass scene. There is like a community of people who are Billy Strings fans. I know that outside some of the shows, there's like a, what do they call it? Like a shakedown street kind of situation where people are selling, well, I don't know, grilled cheese sandwiches or whatever, or selling weed and stuff like that. What do you think that community is looking for when they come to a Billy Strings show?

26:34Billy StringsI think that's a big part of the experience. It's not just the music. It's the camaraderie between all the friends that show up and, you know, we never play the same song, you know, the same way once. All these parts are not worked out exactly. A lot of it is very improvisational. So we have the way the song goes and we get that. But in the middle, every solo is different every time.

27:03Billy StringsAnd sometimes we get into parts of the show where it's a very long improvised piece and that's where the audience and the band kind of come together to make this one big reciprocal thing. I've always kind of felt like the audience is in charge of the show. The more energy they give us the more we can give back and they start kind of being able to press on the gas or the brakes or steer us in different directions because we're just kind of vibing off what they give us.

27:31David MarcheseI was reading an article about you and I think it talked about how before shows you used to get real anxious and have real stomach pain. Is that still an issue for you? I definitely get nervous before a show. Sometimes moments before I'm walking on stage, I feel like I might pass out or I feel really lightheaded or in weak and I just got a kind of

27:58Billy Stringsstumble up on stage and get into the first song or two and halfway through the show, I'm like, I'm the complete opposite. I have all this energy, I feel great, I feel super confident, almost cocky even, you know, to the point where I just, I start having a lot of fun. And it's just the people's smiles that I think bring it out of me. And there is that sort of expectation from the crowd to do something amazing.

28:28Billy Stringsand also the expectation from myself to always do better than I did the night before because this is my livelihood and this is my life and at a certain point deep in the back of my mind I'm scared that this is all going to go away at some point and maybe I'll have to go back to the way life was when it was really hard and surrounded by, you know, there's this little devil on my shoulder that tells me I don't deserve any of this and thinks that I should be in some little trailer somewhere addicted to drugs or something and not a penny to my name. So it does feel like I'm kind of playing for my survival a lot. Each time I walk on stage, I'm playing for so that I don't have to go back there. I want to play a good show so that people will come next time. There's a lot riding on it, you know? Does having a kid

29:29David MarcheseHas that changed the pressure you put on yourself as far as music? Yeah. I used to put too much pressure on myself and to the point where I would strangle the life out of the music, it was the most important thing to me, my music. It's everything from a career to a reason not to just let my life go off the rails and listen to that little devil on my shoulder.

30:05Billy StringsWhen my son was born I kind of I had a big change in perspective and now I'm kind of just free to go sing and play if my family's okay Then I'm free to go play and sing and I'm singing from a place of joy in my belly now and I have this little cosmic listener that I can sing to and sing for no matter what and Now I have an actual reason To go sing and play when I leave my house to go on tour I'm on a mission to provide for my family. I'm not just out there to stoke my ego What was your what is or was your parents relationship with your fans and with the scene around your music? Yeah, the last few years of my mom's life. She got really involved with my fans and the That whole lot scene. I mean she loved it. She

31:07Billy StringsThat's kind of what she grew up with going to concerts and hanging out and stuff So she would go out there and mingle with those folks all the time She had many dear friends that she met at the shows and she would she would do things like Take videos of them Explaining what my music meant to them and she would she would send them to me and stuff She would always tell me like you have no idea how many people you've touched and how how much your music means to these people

31:37David MarcheseAnd I'm kind of like, you know, just blown away by that, you know. Well, I wonder if that was maybe a tough situation for her to be in also because of the partying. Yeah, I wondered about that. But at a certain point, you know, people are going to do what they're going to do. And that's kind of one thing I learned from this whole thing is you can't can't change somebody's life. You know, people are going to do whatever they're going to do. And you got to just love them for who they are.

32:10Billy Stringsand accept whatever happens, you know. Do you think that's true? People are gonna do whatever they're gonna do? I'd do. You can't change? I mean, you can change for sure, but you gotta want to be the one to do it. I'm just saying I can't impose my will on somebody else to expect them to change. I don't think that's a possibility. I've always just wanted my mom and dad to have a good life and for my mom to have a garden, and for them, you know, they're getting older. My mom was 64. I thought, you know, in my mind, it's like I just want them to grow old and start being these boring old people that, you know, go up north every once in a while and sit at home and watch the Andy Griffith show or whatever, but that's what was in my mind, not theirs, you know.

33:06David MarcheseMy mom was living her best life, you know, she was out there having a good time right up until the end which again is still inspiring to me in a way, you know, where she just She didn't want to grow old. She'd rather kind of run and gun right until the end, you know You mentioned a couple times, you know this idea of not wanting to go back to the life you had but if the music had not taken off What would a good life have been for you? Oh just

33:40Billy StringsYou know working a job that I didn't absolutely hate just making enough to have some food in the cupboards and a roof over my head and Not being a drug addict. I think Would be good enough But it turned out pretty well. Yeah Yeah, like I said, I got a lot of stuff out of my system early on and so now I'm I'm 10 years sober from alcohol and I'm definitely drawing a line in the sand here all this generational trauma has to stop with me. And I'm gonna give my son a life very different from mine. I've even, since my son was born, I kinda stopped smoking weed too, so I've been totally sober for like almost a year now. Except for now I like coffee. I never was a coffee drinker before. As far as vices go, I think you're allowed that one. Yeah, I wake up and my wife always makes a pot of coffee and

34:47David MarcheseMan, I'm to the point now where I'm I go to bed excited about that cup of coffee in the morning It's good to have something to live for Yeah, it's it's good. I understand why people are into that stuff now But Billy I really appreciate you speaking with me today and talking with me You know about the tougher stuff and you know, I think we're gonna talk again Maybe in a week we can have something like that, but you're gonna Play a couple of tunes for us. I think you'll have your guitar with you. Awesome. Hey, thank you. I'll see you soon. Hi, Billy. How are you? Good. How's it going? Billy, thank you for taking the time to speak with me again today. No problem. I thought maybe just here at the top you could play a traditional tune for us. I was thinking maybe something like the train that carried my girl from town. Sure. I could give it a try.

36:41Billy StringsWish to the Lord that the train would wreck, kill the engineer and break the fireman's hand. Hey, the train that carried my girl from T.K. standing on a court with my head hanging down. If I had my gun and let the hammer down, I'd shoot the rounder, took my girl from T.K. the train that carried me. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

37:44David MarcheseHey, sounds good. Thank you very much. That was great. Yeah. I haven't had coffee yet. I couldn't tell. When you were starting out playing, what were some of the elements of bluegrass playing in particular that you found trickiest? I mean, because there's the speed, there's these precision, the articulation. It's not the easiest style of music to play well. What was the stuff that you kind of had to really practice at the most? Well, when I first started playing, you know, I just played rhythm and my dad played all the lead. So I would play, you know, why my dad was going stuff like that. And I was just a rhythm player for a long time. And I think that it sort of gave me a

40:02Billy Stringsquite a bit of time to just sit and listen. While I was playing the chords, I could listen to what the melodies were doing. Those kind of seeped into my brain, you know? And it wasn't until a little bit later on that I kind of started to try to take some breaks on some stuff and try to learn how to play, pick the tunes and everything. I mean, I remember when I was a little kid, when I first started playing, I used to just play on two strings a lot.

40:49Billy StringsAnd I would just notice these different, that's all you need right there. When I was, I mean, I must've been, like I said, like five years old, just learning how to play guitar. And I would just sit there and do that. Sometimes I'd get into a pattern. And I just, man, it sounded so magical to me. It sounded huge and like a symphony or something, you know, in my head. And it just, it's just two strings, you know, but I was just,

41:36David Marchesehearing these different intervals of all you do is change one note and it gives it such a different emotion. Sounds kind of hopeful or something. Sounds kind of like, I don't know. I don't know if this is going good. It sounds kind of like resolved. It's like, well, whatever. You know, when we were talking last time, you mentioned that one of the first instances where you really felt proud about your guitar playing was when you were playing Beaumont Ragh with your dad and he was sort of like queuing you with the melodies. Would it be possible to sort of demonstrate what you were talking about there? Like how he was using the melodies to help you understand where to come in? Yeah. So Beaumont Ragh, when I was playing it as a kid, see I got this little thing here that's called a capo. It's kind of like a cheater.

42:51Billy StringsIt changes the keys without having to change the chord shapes, right? Right. Yeah, so I didn't use one on this tune. I played open like this and I would play... So that was my part. My dad would take his capo and play up here out of a C position, but still in D. And so what he would play is... And so on.

44:03Billy StringsSo when I was first learning that tune, you know, I was trying to count, okay, one, two, three, four, one, two, A, two, three, four, and G, and I would get messed up during that part, because I've never been good at counting anyways, or math or numbers or anything like that.

44:33Billy StringsSo we were playing the tune and I just asked my dad to stop I said well right in the middle of the song I just stopped and I said listen you just play it and and let me listen to it and so he played it and I started hearing what he was doing. I wasn't counting. I was listening, you know And then he goes and then on the second part he would go so I know when he goes that's my time to go to the G chord and I started just hearing these little things you know I didn't know it but he would play that chord with that note in it and my ear just would automatically lead me to so I started using the music as

45:58David Marchesea roadmap instead of trying to count. And I know you still practice and take lessons occasionally. What are the things that you're trying to get to in your playing now that you're consciously working on? Oh, I don't know. I feel like I've just played so many gigs and stuff. I just hear myself play so much I get sick of it, you know? Like, you know, bluegrass is a lot of...

46:33Billy StringsLike using this much of the fretboard. Yeah, I mean I'll occasionally I'll occasionally slide up here and get a little stuff, but there's no money past the fifth fret and I've just kind of started to Try to learn some different styles of music that I never really got into you know Studying with my guy Rob that I've been kind of taking lessons with for the last couple years I mean, he's got me playing like Bach and just trying to expand my horizons, I guess. Billy, can you maybe just to close things out? Maybe you can play us out with another traditional song, something like Little White Church. I could probably try that one.

48:35Billy StringsI can hear the bells ring Many miles away In many times on Sunday morn The whole countryside would gather there They would all kneel by the altar As they lifted up their voice in prayer Little white church is the place I love so well I'm sad and lonely Yes, I'm sad and lonely for the little...

49:11Billy StringsChurch in the devil, the old song Rock of Ape Christ let me hide myself in thee The bulls are flying, the darkened stormy sea Their troubles have already together we shall be They are waiting, watching up yonder For the coming home of you and me Church in the valley, that little white church is the place I love so well, I'm sad and I really want to thank you for bringing your guitar along today and playing for us. Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. I usually don't make any good music until after 3 p.m. Thank you again for taking all the time. No problem. And good luck with everything. Thank you. I appreciate it. That's Billy Strings.

51:09David MarcheseHis new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is out August 28. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash ad symbol, The Interview Podcast. This conversation was produced by Seth Kelly. It was edited by John Woo, mixing by Sophia Landman. Original music by Diane Wong and Mary Lizano. Photography by Phillip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Priya Matthew, White Orm, Howlin Newdorf, Joe Bill Munoz, Eddie Costas, Jeremy Rocklin, Gavin Contreras, Kathleen O'Brien, and Brooke Minters. Our executive producer is Allison Benedict. Next week, Lulu interviews actor Matthew Reese, star of the Emmy-nominated show, Widow's Bay. I'm David Marchese, and this is the interview from The New York Times.