Time_Sensitive_Felix_Burrichter_on_Prints_Enduring_Power_in_the_Algorithmic_Age

0:04I feel a big responsibility for every story that we publish because you're putting something out in the world that hopefully has longer lasting value. It's not just a clip on Instagram and there will be a reference in hopefully many years to come. Hey everyone, on this week's episode I sit down in the studio with Felix Berkter. He's a German-born New York-based editor, curator and founder of Pinup whose self-described magazine for architectural entertainment has expanded the possibilities of what an architecture and design publication can be. Felix approaches architecture not as an isolated discipline, but as a way of understanding culture at large. Through pin-up, the worlds of art, architecture, design, music, food, film, and fashion coexist in a shared creative ecosystem, revealing how the built environment shapes and is shaped by.

1:29the larger societal forces around us. As Felix tells me on this episode, architecture is something we experience every moment of the day. And one of the greatest powers is its ability to become a quote, custodian of memory, carrying the values and contradictions of each era forward through time. This year marks the 20th anniversary of pinup and the publication of its 40th issue, a special edition devoted to the theme of independence.

1:57something that's central to how Felix views pin up itself. More than a retrospective, the latest issue reflects on the evolution of architecture and design in the first quarter of the 21st century, as well as on the freedom that can emerge from building a media platform outside the conventions of traditional publishing. Along the way, Felix has created a magazine that is at once serious and playful, high brow and low brow, and one that treats print itself as a spatial experience.

2:27with each issue carefully constructed world unto itself. Pinup, true to its tagline, is indeed entertaining, and often quite cheeky. There is a knowing wink to pinup, even in its name. A reference to design review sessions where sketches, drawings, and mood boards are pinned to a wall and presented, but also no doubt a nod to the glamorous pinup models whose images were mass-circulated throughout the mid-20th century.

2:55As he looks toward the future, Felix continues to champion a slower, more intentional form of media that much like ours here at the slowdown is devoted not to algorithms, but to curiosity, discovery, and pleasure. At a moment when so much culture is flattened into endlessly scrollable digital feeds, pin-up remains committed as ever to creating a print-led, human-curated environment where unexpected people and ideas can encounter one another, and where architecture serves as a gateway to multi-layered conversations about how we live. On the episode Felix reflects on why he sees magazines as intimate dinner parties rather than all you can eat but phase, how slowness and experimentation have become pin-ups to finding strengths, and why despite our precarious present of climate instability, democratic fragility, and technological upheaval, he continues to strive toward utopia.

3:52Before we get into the episode, I'd first like to thank our season 13 presenting partner, Lakul, School of Jewelry Arts, which is supported by the Mesaan Van Cleef and our pells. With the mission of sharing the art and culture of jewelry with the general public, Lakul offers everything from courses on art history and introductory jewelry making and gemology to in-person and online talks, from books and exhibitions to its podcast, Voice of Jewels.

4:20Founded in 2012, LeCole operates from permanent campuses in Paris, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Dubai, and hosts various traveling events around the world. With programming that revolves around three main themes, Savofer, the history of jewelry, and the universe of gemstones, LeCole is a verifiable gold mine when it comes to the art, craft, and scholarship of jewelry. Among LeCole's various courses are a guide to Japanese-arushi lacquer techniques, a study of gouache painting and high jewelry, and even a program titled from the chef to the master jeweler, a full-day workshop involving a morning cooking class, a lunch and tasting of petisseries by Francois Peret, the pastry chef at the Ritz Paris, and in the afternoon, a lesson on jeweler's techniques. Kids' courses for six to eleven-year-olds include from aspiring jeweler to little pastry chef and make your own treasure chest.

5:17And there are also offerings for teenagers to discover the world of gems and the art of designing jewels. You can learn more about Lecole and its current and upcoming offerings at LecolevanCleafOurPels.com. That's Ellie, CEOLE, V-A-N-C-L-E-E-F-A-R-P-E-L-S.com. And now, here's my conversation with Felix. Hi Felix, welcome to TimeSensitive. Hi Spencer.

5:54Thanks for having me on time sensitive. Well, congratulations on 40 issues and 20 years of pin-up. Let's start there. How are you thinking about this moment in time in this particular milestone? Primarily I'm proud that we've built something that has lasted 20 years. Part of me is sort of incredulous that it's been 20 years because it doesn't quite feel like 20 years. It's also daunting.

6:23to some extent because you know you kind of when you face time, and you realize how much time has passed. I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and that's sort of another reminder. But for the most part, I'm absolutely super proud. And also really excited about what we've built in general, but also what we built with this issue, which was a very special project in many ways.

6:49I'm also excited to be in this moment for, like, my personal life, but also, I mean, we're here not to talk about my personal life, but I'm maybe excited about this moment in architecture and design. I imagine for our listeners, many of them are familiar with pin up, but some might not be, so I thought it'd be helpful to... Sorry, I'm shaking my drink. No, it's coffee. It's ice coffee.

7:18I thought it'd be helpful for you to just get into this sort of self-described magazine for architectural entertainment for a minute. Like, what's your 30-second elevator pitch for pin-off? Like, what is it exactly as you see it now, and where does it sit within culture and society? Well, the last part of the question, I think you can probably answer that better than I can. The 30-second elevator pitch for pin-up is that it is a...

7:46a magazine about culture through the lens of architecture and design. I say that way because it is an architecture and design magazine, but it treats the subject as something that is deeply embedded in culture at large. Part of the motivation to start the magazine was the fact that I felt architecture media was very insular and by design.

8:13It was not an accident. I think it was treated and regarded as something that was very elitist and insular. And part of the motivation for me was to illustrate how we are facing and we are experiencing architecture in the land every single moment of the day. Even when we're sleeping, I suppose. So I think that's really what it is. It's a culture magazine that looks at culture through the lens of architecture design.

8:45And your 40th issue is themed independence. How do you land on independence? Well, actually, you know, I have a Indian Medavi to think. Shout out to Indian Medavi. I saw her a few months ago. She pointed out, which is something very obvious, but you know, when you're in the thick of it, you don't always notice it is we've also, we've not just been in business for 20 years, but we've also been in business independently. We've never had a backer. We were never part of a bigger publishing house that I think in and of itself is in achievement. One that I'm not necessarily, you know, celebrating every day because this also comes with a lot of, yeah, the pressure of challenges and pressure. But I think it has enabled pin up to grow in the way it has and to become this platform that it has become because we operate independently. When she pointed that out, I think we had, what was the initial

9:42Title for oh top 40 top 40 was the the working title and it's still hidden here somewhere in the I think we like we the idea was always to kind of Use this issue not so much to look back on what we've done, but kind of how what we've done has been part of a larger Evolution of architecture and design in the 21st century and to kind of make sense to use this issue to make sense of a lot of these things. What has happened in architecture since the year 2000? Top 40 is very fitting too, because I feel like it's sort of that it's cheeky. Pinup is famously kind of high brow, low brow. It's both. Thank you. Thank you for noticing that. Yes. With brilliant in there, I guess, high brow, brilliant, low brow, brilliant. In your issue 40 editors letter, you write, the past 25 years have...

10:35brought the revision and in some cases the liquidation of old cannons, a steady streak of technological disruptions, some welcome some not, and enough culture wars along with actual wars to make a precise reading of the recent past feel provisional at best. You also add, if earlier eras announced themselves through movements and manifestos, this one is unfolded through updates feeds and the low-grade exhaustion of being chronically online.

11:04How did you go about sifting through all this noise in making your top 40, let's say? How did you kind of unite all of these ideas? I guess through an architecture and design lens, what did you ultimately make of this first quarter of the 21st century?

11:22Well, to answer the first part, how did I go about it? Well, I didn't, thankfully. Other people did it for me, and we've had incredible contributors in general for this issue, and especially for these sort of lists, or, you know, there's 40 objects that kind of runs as a recurring threat throughout these 40 objects that were defined the 21st century. Those were curated by Alexander Cunningham Cameron, who is the Curator at Large at the Coupe duet, and the first curator at large at the Cooper Hero and also now the design director at the Judd Foundation. She also edits an magazine called Cultured at Home. So she has a lot of jobs and I added another one to her list which is the curator of 40 objects. So then there's 40 houses which is something that I loved working on because it is essentially a peer review of 40 of the most influential houses.

12:20built in the 21st century. And this was an even more provocative or potentially provocative endeavor because making lists in general, you know, always causes discontent with especially with those, either with those who are in honor or, you know, just in general, people have opinions about lists. Instead of carrying the bird in ourselves and making those decisions, we actually reached out to over a hundred architects to nominate three houses that they deemed the most influential of the 21st century. The parameters were it had to be a single quote unquote family house and it had to be built since the year 2000. And the results were so eclectic and exciting. Some houses I had never even heard of or had forgotten about them. Then it was up to us to kind of do the ranking.

13:20and see how many were nominated and how many times. And there were some that were maybe nominated by almost a third of the people we asked. And then some were just nominated ones. That's where we had to kind of make a decision, okay, which ones of these do we include. But that was a really exciting exercise because you really got also, you kind of saw, you know, these, and these are practitioners, I'm going to cry at this list and see, because like I said, it's over a hundred. So I'm going to read some, So we asked, let's see, who do we have here? Andres Hock, and Holtrop, Annabelle Saldorov, Baratzevega, Bernardo Boa, Bettina Krause, Bianca Ingalls. I'm not going to read them all, but you kind of peterzum tour, Ryzer Mimoto, Tatiana Babao. So it's a kind of a who's who. And it's a bit of a who's who and also, of course, we relied on a lot of people that we already

14:20You know had a relationship with but we also reached out to a lot of new people and it was I was really Happy with how enthusiastic the responses were people really Loved to think about this. Was there one house in particular? I mean the number one house that I think if we had made a list an actual ranking number one would have been the Moriama House Beirut Nishisaba. I was amazed how that how large this project looms in the imagination. Share a bit about this house for the listeners because it's an unusual house. It is actually not even strictly speaking a single family house. And I think that's part of the reason why it is so. It presents itself both as a single unit and at the same time a complete fragmentation of the...

15:19single-family house, or of that typology. It's from 2005, I should say, or was built in 2005. It is individual volumes that each present one room, more or less, but even the rooms are left somewhat not undefined, but open to definition. There's courtyards, there's moments where these spaces meet, but they also allow a lot of privacy. So it is, in a way, modular.

15:48without, you know, being physically modular, but the way you cannot occupy the space is extremely amorphous, flexible. Flexible. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, pinup is remained remarkably consistent over the years, even as you've evolved and hold on Spencer, that was a second part to your question. What was that? It was the... Oh, I had asked you, what do you make of the first quarter of the 21st century? Oh, what do I make of it? Yes.

16:18God, I wish I hadn't reminded you. If you draw a parallel to the first quarter of the 20th century, it was an extreme moment of transition. And you could argue that we're always in a moment of transition. We're never, you know, somewhere final. Everything is always moving. But I think that the beginning of this century has been marked geopolitically by so many changes.

17:00And I think there was a sense of certainty, you know, in terms of the world order that permitted the 90s. And I think the 21st century kind of started with a bang by reminding everyone that actually, no, this is not the end of history. Actually, we're entering something completely new. And the bang were maybe both the tech bubble that burst in 1999, was it?

17:29Obviously 9-11 and neither of those moments were directly related to architecture, but an architecture always takes the wild to sort of react in a way, but I think what happened is that everybody is looking for new answers to questions they don't fully understand yet because also things have accelerated a lot. Technology has accelerated. I think societal transformations have also accelerated and so we're still in a moment of extreme transition and where architecture is kind of running after. I don't think architecture is presenting ideas anymore. Maybe the way it did a hundred years ago where architecture was at the forefront of presenting new life cells, I think it's constantly catching up with the pace of technology. Right. And sometimes also either catching up or trying to offer

18:31a sort of respite from it. There's a slowness embedded into the nature of architecture. You can't just instantly build it, although we are seeing how technology is upending even the construction of buildings. But I do think it is one of the slower arts and humanity is better for it because of that sense of speed. I like that. Yes.

19:00I did want to bring up, you know, pinup has now 20 years in. It's like you look at this incredible archive you've built up, and it is, while it's certainly evolved, it's remained so consistent, like two issues a year, always. Two apprentices, yeah. Two apprentices a year, always been by annual, always had this focus on architectural entertainment from issue one. How have you managed to stay?

19:26so focused and consistent because even just hearing it, you know, the difference between 2006 and now, it's remarkable. I mean, you started this magazine the year before the iPhone even arrived. I know. I actually, I recently, I did a, I was invited by Scout to do a lecture. And one of the questions was what the media landscape was like. And then I turned to the audience and I asked how many people here in this room were born in 2006.

19:52And I almost had a heart attack when I saw how many hands went up. It was half the room. It was born in 2006 or later. And you know, I that just blew my mind. Yeah. Yeah, pin up so much drinking age. Yes, exactly. Well, we can definitely vote. The paradox, I think embedded in pin up is that the biennial print issue provides a structure.

20:19And, you know, we don't just do print. I should say, obviously, it wasn't always obvious, but, you know, we don't just do print. We also, we produce books, we do video, we do events, exhibitions, and podcasts. What's that? Products. Yes. Well, that's pin-up home. But we don't do podcasts yet. So there is, I think, the consistency of this biannual print product, which, you know, there were many moments.

20:50during the past 20 years where we were like, is this really the right decision? There were many, many signs pointed towards maybe giving up on it. And I'm really happy we didn't because it does provide a sort of structure around which like an anchor moment that helps us navigate the media landscape in a very regulated way. But the paradox, I guess I'm trying to get at, is that at the same time there is no formula.

21:19So, there's a regularity, but there's no formula. So, we kind of reinvent the wheel with everything. Yeah, I mean, let's just take issue 40 here. It's not really, I wouldn't even describe it as an issue. It's a box set. There's 11 different pieces of printed material inside this box that it comes in. So, I think you're sort of playing with the notion of what a magazine is. Yes, absolutely. And I think that's also why we never stopped even though, especially in the late teens, It was a struggle trying to convince clients and partners why being part of a print product was relevant. And now there's like a resurgence. Oh complete resurgence. Absolutely. Yeah. But before the pandemic, it was there was a sort of this idea that print is if not obsolete, then soon obsolete. Yeah. And I think it was actually the onslaught of technology that everybody was faced with.

22:18during the pandemic that made them realize, well, actually would be nice to also not look at a screen for a while. And there was a sort of a certain value to having the consistency of print and craft. I mean, you know, baking bread and, yes, this was our version of baking bread. Yeah. But I think this idea that there is no formula. I mean, we know, you know, we have a certain number of pages. You know, we have a certain number of interviews and, you know, there's certain rubrics that are recurring. But beyond that, there really is no formula. I think I was always a little bit envious of publications that had a really good formula where it's like, you know, there's instruction manual and then you can just fill in the blanks. And there's some really good ones out there. More than one occasion, I would kind of say to myself, well, I wish we could just do something a little simpler. Ultimately, it is also the superpower.

23:18of pin-up because when you have a formula, it can also be very easily replicated, whether by other people or by machines. Pin-up is a tough one to replicate. Yeah. For better or worse. It's a hand-sewn magazine. Yes. This issue features several former time-sensitive guests, the Astor Gates, who are interviewed salonjinals. Yes. Ghetto gastras, John Gray, J. Osgerby, Andy and Trigger.

23:47And over the years, I did listen to the E and Shrek interviewer actually before we, before we... Oh, yeah. You did, yeah. And? That was great. Yeah, that was great. It was great prep. I mean, I didn't even do the interview, but I listened to it anyway. Yeah. Well, you also had other interviews in the magazine over the years with Fatou Good, Annabelle Seldorf, Shohei Shigamatsu and Robert Wilson. These are all also former time-sensitive guests. So I was...

24:14This is partly why I wanted to have you on the show. There's such a strong cultural, editorial, curatorial through line between pin-up and time-sensitive or what you do and what I do. For a long time now, I feel like even though I've never written for pin-up or contributed a pin-up, I've always felt like a sort of interlocutor to it. And I feel like what we both do, maybe, is this idea of treating architecture, art, and design as these things that are, there are means toward answering broader cultural questions. And we're also kind of forming these transdisciplinary creative networks through the platforms and offering an alternative to fast digital culture. Yeah. So I guess it's a long way to say, do you see that similarly? And I guess taking a 30,000 foot view.

25:12I guess where do you see us situated in this landscape? What's your perspective on? You and me, or just like kind of pin up. Yeah. Well, first of all, I would like to say that part of the joy of doing this is also that you can have an interview with Ian Tragger, that you did, and then you can have an interview with Ian Tragger and pin up. And they're very different approaches, right?

25:44It's not like you walk away with like, oh, well, that was a whole lot of the same. I was surprised when I read the shaggy interview. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I can't think of like specific things that I was like, oh, I didn't know that about him, but I would say it was more just the way, more the way that it was approached. There were questions that were asked that were just like things that I would never think to ask. I'm happy to hear that. I think what we do or what slow down and pin up does do It's an ecosystem. I don't want to say network because it has a sort of dirty. It is an ecosystem. You also create an ecosystem where the platform or the publication can be a catalyst for a lot of these different voices can hold the same space and be in conversation with each other and inform each other because you can have

26:40a chef next to an architect. You know, I mean, you even have a much broader scope, even, you know, where you bring, you know, scientists and chefs. And so I think, you know, you create something where these things can talk to each other. I don't mean literally talk to each other, but they sit in the same space and then they can hold the same value. And this can be someone very old. This can be someone who's just starting. This can be, you know, someone mid-career. And I think creating that ecosystem also comes And not to sound pompous, but I think also there's a big responsibility that comes with that. I feel a big responsibility for every story that we publish because you're putting something out in the world that hopefully has longer lasting value. It's not just a lip on Instagram. And there will be a reference in hopefully many years to come. It's the posterity thing. It's the posterity thing, which is also why I always say.

27:38I don't always say it, but he'll say it now. You know, we obviously covered people from all, at all stages of their career, but my favorite stories are people who are just starting out or who are at sort of the, I don't want to say at the end of their career, but at the, you know, at the sort of, in the late stage of their career. Because with people who are just starting out, you really have the responsibility of, you know, you play an active role in how you frame their practice.

28:07Right, and I always remind also the writers, I mean, you know, obviously I'm not doing even 5% of the content of pin-ups. I always remind the writers, especially that this pieces might get referred to by other people in the future. So, you know, be mindful of that. And then for people who are in the later stage of their career, I think it's like, because they think about their legacy, right? They think about their legacy so much. And then you get to either show a side of them that no one has seen before during their career because they've also kind of like, you know, start to not give a fuck anymore. Yeah, after age 90. Yeah, actually, like, after 80, you know, they're ready to roll. They're ready to rip, especially. That's also exciting, right? Then you have the late stage, crescendo piece, you know, and that also really shapes in how people are remembered.

29:07Hey everyone, taking a quick break here to tell you a little bit about our season 13 presenting partner, Lakul, School of Jewelry Arts, which is supported by the Mason Van Cleef and Arpelles. Founded in 2012, Lakul operates from permanent campuses in Paris, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Dubai, and hosts various traveling events around the world, with programming that revolves around three main themes, Sava Faire, the history of jewelry, and the universe of gemstones.

29:36In addition to its courses, lectures, publications, and other programming, Blacole also produces a podcast called Voice of Jewels, which draws on knowledge from its lecturers, researchers, and other experts to uncover the stories and secrets behind history's most fascinating jewels. You could learn more about Blacole and its current and upcoming offerings at LeColeVancleafOurPels.com. That's Ellie.

30:02C-O-L-E-V-A-N-C-L-E-E-F-A-R-P-E-L-S.com. And now, back to the episode. Well, just staying on issue 40, I wanted to bring up J.O.S. Groupies essay and the issue. Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean. And J was also on time sensitive. So yeah, I'm shadowed to J.O.S. Groupies. Connection. Yeah. And his essay is titled, Design in the 21st Century, the shift from objects to systems.

30:39He basically writes about how the field of design has shifted from, quote, shaping self-contained tools to designing portals to systems. And this idea of like portals I find very interesting that almost like as he puts it, design center of gravity has moved from the material to the screen, from the form to the interface, from the object to the service. And I think we're now entering this phase of design where Almost like, if we're not careful, we're going to lose all the meaning in it. And his essay is sort of an extrapolation of that. It's almost a celebration of craft. Yes, although I thought it was so interesting about Jay's piece is that, you know, if you look at Barbara Oscar-Bee's work, there's a brilliant show right now about the Trinale, I think until October. Yeah, in Milan, yeah. Yeah, it's called Alphabet.

31:41They have always thought in systems for objects, right? They were, they're not potters, potters, potters. They're not potters, you know, making like crafted, you know, unique objects. They've always thought about design systems and how both in the process of design, but also how objects can become, I mean, we're looking at a baroscopy, flops, lamb, the bell hop right now. You know, this is one of the, I think it's one of Floss's best sellers, you know, then they become, it is one of the probably one of the most iconic, wireless, portable lights on the market. It's been sitting in the time sensitive studio the past, I guess, four years almost now. So I think what's interesting about him writing about

32:35or pointing out this idea of design becoming systems is that his mind is already sharpened to that. And he didn't write it with a bitterness, let's say, of someone who, you know, there's an optimism for sure. There is an optimism to it, but I think it's what he's saying. And I think what you also, the way you paraphrase is don't let the system take you over. You need to be able to still be able to control the system. And I think That's maybe also a pivotal point right now where, or at least that's what so many people are afraid of, right? In general, and maybe in design, specifically, is that systems are taking over your life, and that we're no longer in control of them. I also read his piece as a call to agency. It's not just, oh, we should all have beautifully handcrafted.

33:31Mugs at home and that's you know, that's the nostalgia of how of a place design once used to be I don't think that's his point at all I think what was interesting is that he he's someone who thinks and systems but he the argument he was making is that we need to be able to Within that not lose the humanity and the human at the center of it rather than an accessory. Yeah There's also the concern he writes about a vote over production. The more we produce and deplete resources, the less cultural meaning we're going to find. Tell me about your choice of putting salange knolls on the cover and having the aster interview her. Is she a sort of penultimate practitioner of pen up thinking? Do you view her as maybe in a way?

34:27Solange, actually Solange had always been a dream of mine. First of all, I'm a fan of her work. Losing you is still one of my top five songs. I've followed her career as a music fan primarily over, you know, since I think losing you. I wasn't really paying that much attention to her before that, but losing was such a major pop culture moment.

34:56I don't know if you remember the video, which was shot in South Africa. And Mikhail Thomas did a lot of the artwork around that album drop. And so I've been following for a while. And then when she, I think it was early in the pandemic, when she started being interested in design, I was like, oh, that's interesting. I think it's very specific to her. And I actually, I love, I remember talking to her for the first time. And she was talking about how her interest in design came from the Luther Vandra song, House is not a home, which I think is my favorite detail about her work with St. Laurent, which is her sort of creative studio. But bigger picture, I think it also is a great example of how design over the past six, seven years has become a cultural talking point.

35:55or of greater culture interest than it had ever before. I think more people are interested in it. It's reached even pop culture. And I'm not saying that because she's a pop star, although she probably would not like me to call her that, but she is in that world. And for someone of her...

36:16to shine a light on yeah exactly and even to show the interest in in how the built environment or you know space is conceived I think that's and this is also why at the beginning I said you know I'm actually Excited about the moment that we're in in design. I think she's a great example of how someone who comes from the outside Let's say you know she's not a design insider embraces the culture and is interested in expressing herself through design. I've been trying to do this story for I think four or five years, something like that. It somehow finally happened last year. I kind of everything fell into place and she was very interested in telling her story through the work that she does with Saint Laurent and how it fits into the greater arc of her career.

37:13with music, but also writing, publishing. She also, I mean, it's not just design, it's books, it's the Saint Laurent Library, it's Saint Laurent Press, you know. So there's a lot of different elements to it. That's how that came together. And she's very, very particular about her vision. As she says in her interviews, she believes in slowness, but she has been incredibly generous with us in the way that Once we produced the story and we were very meticulous about shooting every single piece that Saint Laurent had ever produced. Sean Davidson went to her studio on 28th Street and catalogued every single object in that space. I mean, she wanted to do an auction. She has an entire auction catalog at this point. So once we were finished with the production and we went to print

38:10She had this vision that she also wanted to transform it into a digital experience I Didn't really understand what she wanted to do or but I said go ahead. Here's here's all the material, you know the Do what you feel like doing and then I think two weeks later that she came back with this insane Web archive I still like I look at it now. It's such a beautiful expression of her practice digitally It's one of the most print-like digital experiences I've ever had. I mean, that way that's very nuanced, it's not flat, it's very dynamic. It has all the digital bells and whistles, but there's something about it that is a way of exploring a website slowly that does have that print-like quality.

39:02She actually kind of took it to another place that I didn't even think we were going to have. So yeah, I'm super grateful. And to have the Astor interview. And to have the Astor interview. I mean, that's, yeah, let's talk about a cherry on top. Also, last year for issue 39, you got Mexican architect, Frieda Escapeta. Who's that? We're literally sitting in her inside a building. She designed. Yeah. Is she another one of these practitioners defining this moment in culture, and I guess pin up thinking, let's call it. Yes. Yeah, she is. Very different, very, very different from, I mean, if I don't even know if you're asking me to compare it to Solange, Frida is a much more classic architect in the sense that, you know, she is trained as an architect. She's always worked in architecture. She's much more part of the discourse, discourse in the classic training. And

40:03I think what's so interesting about, to me, about Frida is how when you talk to her, it's almost she talks about anything but architecture in the most formal sense, you know, like it's not about the architecture with the capital A, you know, like the space, you know, like the materials and, you know, all of that is obviously part of her practice, but I think that what she's so good at Communicating is architecture as a lived experience and how it is completely linked to, let's say anthropology, to culture. She's just so good at communicating that. I don't want to say the projects become secondary because you already kind of are in the head space. Like the head space is there before the actual space is finished. And so...

41:05Does that make sense? I don't know, sorry, free dive. This sounds confusing, but I mean, this is, I really admire this about her. And she's able to talk about these things with such clarity. And at the same time, there's a lot of poetry in the way she talks about the work. Yeah, time is a huge part of her practice. Exactly. She's very, yeah, slowness. I think there's also just like a very quiet strength, quiet presence. It's like...

41:32All things I don't have so I admire her for that even more. Well, let's go back to your upbringing here. I actually don't know a ton about your background and it was hard to dig anything up, but I know you were born and raised in Dusseldorf. Tell me a bit about your Dusseldorf time. The Dusseldorf days? What is it to say? I was born there and I was raised there. Dusseldorf is about the size of Boston.

42:03But I like to compare it more to Dallas and that's actually not even an original thought. It's I think even within German lore People often like say oh, it's the German Dallas which obviously it's so not But I think the reason why people say that because it is It's a city that has a lot of There's a lot of money, but the it's history is fairly recent. It didn't really become an important city until the late 19th century, which is, for European standards, is pretty late. It's very close to Cologne, which is the opposite. It's like a city that's over 2,000 years old. It has the reputation of being a little new for Rich. It has also an incredible art academy. It has very important collections and museums. Some very important galleries as well.

43:01But I have to admit, I did not know that much about all that when I was growing up there. I actually just couldn't wait to get out of there. I was very keen on leaving Düsseldorf behind. I appreciate these things now, they're much older. And my family's still there. I go visit pretty often, given that I live, you know, thousands of miles away. But it's a convenient place also to get around on Europe. You know, you fly there and then it's like an hour to Milan, or I don't know, like a...

43:30four hours by train to Paris. And why don't I know what else to tell you about Dusseldorf? Do you think the, let's say the infrastructure of Dusseldorf somehow sort of slowly infiltrated your mind and interest in architecture? Was that, I think the benefit of growing up there was that it was big enough to not be a complete country pumpkin but small enough to not be jaded and want to get out. You know, I think those were, That was the winning formula here. So, when I read that for some of high school, you lived in Southern California? I did. I was in San Diego for a year. I was in exchange. What was that? And Powai. Powai San Diego. What was it like? It was super, it was extremely formative. I loved it. I stayed with a family, the whiteheads. I got the full high school experience. I was in band. I was, would you play? Clarenate.

44:31I was, wait, I was promprints. I got to be promprints. Living the American dream. Living the American dream, exactly. And I think I often say that I think I understand Americans better than most people who move here because I got to spend a year in high school, because I think the high school is such a formative experience for Well, that time, but I think in general, I think high school is so important in the American psyche. I mean, how many countries do you know where high school movies are, I think? Yeah. Like, it's such an American psychology. Were you aware of Louis Conn and the Salk Institute at that time? Absolutely not. I only cared about MTV, The Grind. That was my priority then. Well, so you go on to study architecture in Paris for undergrad.

45:28and then came to New York for your master's at Columbia share a bit about your university training architectural training was there a professor who kind of shape your thinking or Did you intend to become an architect was that your I did I was I was always Really preoccupied with architecture. We would have these architecture magazines at home that I would just poor over, you know, like they would come every month. That's where it started. That's where it started. But that's also where my passion for magazines started. And I think it was always the duality of architecture magazine and also fashion magazines. On the one side, I would devour these architecture magazines. And especially in the late 80s, 90s, there was a lot of pomo, of course, and then fashion magazines, I would kind of be obsessed about.

46:30those. But I think it's, I mean, I say this sometimes I'd like, I was either going to be an architect or a headdresser. That was the other one. That was my other house. It's in between the two. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, I think headdresser at some point, that was a short phase, but there was an interest in mine. No, but I always felt that architecture was probably what I wanted to do partially also because It was creative, but it was respectable. So there's maybe also a kind of a middle class, sort of pressure of doing something respectable. You're not a doctor, you're not a lawyer, but architects are at least you an architect. At least that. Well, and after Columbia, you went and worked in architecture. I did. That KPF for a bit. I just wrote the full word for the 50th anniversary book. Oh, wow.

47:28And I went forth, forth, backly called me and I was like, did you read any of the interviews? How am I talking about it, KPM? Because I did not love it there. I have to say sorry KPM. But I did love writing the forward for their book. Well, yeah, I mean, I read you were like doing things like drawing curtain walls for casinos in Macau. Yes, that's right. Well, they took me off their project pretty quick. How did you leap from KPM to pin up? Like, how did you go from this?

47:57Let's call it midling architecture work, where you're not happy and frustrated to creating this magazine for architectural entertainment. Well, that's the through line. I needed to balance the monotony of my day job. Shout out to KPF. They made PIDA possible. First couple of issues were paid by my KPF salary. And I also used a printer.

48:24I often think about that. I mean, they, if I had worked in a more creative but also more demanding environment, you know, a lot of, at the time, a lot of folks who graduated from Columbia, you know, they went to DSR or, you know, much smaller firms where the projects were maybe more experimental or cultural. But I don't think I would have had the, probably not even the time, let alone.

48:52I think I would have already been fulfilled in other ways. I wouldn't have felt the need to create a pin-up. But pin-up was a direct result of wanting to... Because I loved studying architecture. Studying architecture was super fun. And because studying architecture is learning history. You learn construction. You learn anthropology. It's theory. There's all these different aspects to it. I know aesthetics.

49:24Then once you, once you start a proper job, then you realize, oh, wait, this is not at all like what we did in school. So I think I was kind of, you know, I was trying to bring back and the excitement of being back in school and constantly learning new things, meeting new people, discovering new people, you know, discovering new ideas. I definitely was not doing that in my day job. Yeah. Well, and just bringing...

49:52your personal touch, I mean, uncreating pin-up, you've called it a quote, queering agent, as well as quote, defiantly inclusive. So this idea of creating an opportunity for all these voices to coexist together. Share a bit about issue one, and I guess also how that paved the way for everything that's come since. Well issue one, funnily, is the blueprint to this day. And it came together I mean, I think I worked on it for a year. I did a few mock-ups myself. I had a pretty good idea of what kind of mix of subjects I wanted to have in the first issue. And because I'd always done internships on the side, creating a magazine, it wasn't a mystery to me anymore. I had done enough internships with publications where I understood, okay, these are the parameters, this is how you...

50:50talk to writers. You know, this is how you commission photographers. You know, all these things were, and I learned from some of the best. I mean, you know, like Yopphan Benacom and Hat Younger, who I consider mentors, along with Stephen Todd. I learned so much from how they operated and they operated in some of them in much bigger structures, you know, much bigger publishing houses. I had to sort of play book, or at least I, you know, enough to start.

51:17obviously learned a lot since. I think the breakthrough for the first issue came when I hired graphic designers. Because at some point, I think I thought I could do it all myself. You know, like a lot of architects do, they think they can just be a graphic designer and a poet and a writer and a builder and a designer. So I was introduced to Dylan Fracareta and Geoffrey Han and they designed the blueprint for the first issue and I think to this day graphic design is such an important part of the magazine because it kind of is the scaffolding that holds it all together because the content can be extremely eclectic and it was even in the first issue the design is the scaffolding yeah it kind of makes it sexy makes it makes it sexy but it also makes it coherent yeah kind of allows for

52:18stories to sit next to each other that otherwise wouldn't really make sense. It's the beauty of graphic design to make that possible. So I always encourage everyone. If you have a project, get a designer. Don't do yourself. You've also longed the way to become a great interviewer.

52:39You did a great interview with me actually. And over the past two decades, you've interviewed everyone from Ricardo Bofield and David Chipperfield. Don't ask me who my favorite interview was. I'm not going. That's not where I'm going. You've also interviewed Francis Carey and Raphael Vanjoli. I mean, one conversation I wanted to bring up because it has a lot to do with time and with slowness. And I just actually was probably my favorite conversation I came across all going through the archives.

53:08is the one you did with the Pritzker Prize winning Brazilian architect Paulo Mendez de Rocha. Oh my God, that was amazing. And he says, time has its fractures. It's always been like that. History tends to happen in a non-continuous way. What do you remember from your conversation with him? Like, what comes to mind for you? I am embarrassed to admit, I don't remember at all what we talked about. But I remember him so vividly. I was in his office in Hippoblica and in Sao Paulo. It was just him and his wife who ran the office and there were so many models and it felt like stepping into the 1960s or maybe the late 70s. It really felt like a time had stopped at some point and he was still going but things were happening elsewhere, you know. And

54:07It was a bit of a time capsule, but then he himself was so vivid and so fast. And I mean, he was fine about what he called a celestial mechanics of reality, which I mean, come on. I mean, it was he was he was he to read that in. I mean, he's like a poet really. This is not the kind of conversation you would typically find about architecture. And this is what I was also saying earlier. It's so important for me that In every issue we have someone like him, you know, who is... Okay, how am I going to say this? They're at a point in their career where they've already done everything. Yeah, he won the Pritzker. Yeah. I mean, it's arguable whether that is the peak of everyone's career. But, you know, yes, he also won the Pritzker, and he's created some of the most important buildings of the 20th century.

55:04He's single-handedly defined with Nemire, the Brazilian national style. I don't know if that's, if I put it quite in those words, but I think he symbolizes South American, especially Brazilian architecture. So it's so important for me to have these voices, when they speak about their work, they no longer promote a project.

55:28Talking about ideas. I mean your conversation with Bijoy Jane as well like that that really reminds me of that You know if this was in issue 28 from 2020 and he describes his unusual architecture practice as quote exploring thoughts ideas and materials with no specific intention which is very unarchitect in a way he talks about how things are more loose in his studio and how when asked are you busy he says no I'm occupied I like this because it's like this he creates really resonant work but I think it's the openness of his process and again it's like you open your average architecture magazine you're not gonna get get that full kind of story I think that's what you and what pinup does really well

56:19Yeah, I think it's always less about projects and more about ideas Ultimately because frankly, there's better magazines to look at if you want to look at projects You know, that's not I would say a stronger suit. It's the humanity in a way. Yes, exactly exactly. Yeah Hey everyone taking another quick break here to tell you a little bit about our weekly newsletter where I share behind the scenes look into each time sensitive episode, where we also get into various things in the cultural sphere, our team at the slowdown is paying attention to. You could sign up and join our thousands of other subscribers by going to slowdown.media slash newsletter. That's slowdown.media slash newsletter. And now back to the episode. Now this connects I guess in a little, in a certain way to your editor's letter from issue 36.

57:24from 2024. I'm pulling out some. Yeah, this issue was themed. What was that? Oh, a construction. Yeah, this issue was themed under construction. And you write in a world where the illusion of certainty no longer holds. Humanity has a nerd itself to a perpetual state of ambiguity. One, we can either embrace or endure. And you describe architects as custodians of memory.

57:48And I love that idea. As hoping maybe you could just elaborate a little bit on this idea of what does architecture, what can architecture at its best? Which is to say, I guess it's most thoughtful, refined, open. What can it contribute to culture? Custodians of memory sounds really beautiful. I think you'd tempted to read it immediately as something very positive.

58:17But it doesn't have to be even, you know, I think that architecture is always a mirror of the time we live in, for better or worse, because architecture lasts longer than almost anything else, probably just plastic bags lasts longer than the most architecture books and magazines maybe. I don't know, I think they do. Hopefully, yeah.

58:47Hopefully, yes. Hopefully, you're right. But I think architecture tends to last for the most part, right? At least that's always the ambition that it's that it lasts. Of course, nothing is forever. But I think in that sense, it has the capacity to represent larger stretches of time, whereas like maybe address stands for a certain moment. But architecture stands for like much longer stretches of time and it can hold all that. That also extends to images of architecture because the way we experience architecture is not necessarily always through physical experience, but a lot of it. And it has always been true. This is not even not a result of the...

59:41twenty-first century image technology. It's just become more sped up. Yeah. It's sped up and accelerated. Yeah, but you look at architecture magazines from the 1950s and yeah, you know, or paintings. Back then. Yeah, you know, so architecture has that power. I think that's why also why continue finding it so intriguing because yes, we're in a transitional moment. We're always in a transitional moment where everything is always under construction. But Architecture provides that those moments where you actually have proof of what a moment stood for in physical form. Thinking about what you've done with pen-up, I wanted to ask, do you view yourself possibly as a sort of Andy Warhol of 21st century architecture and design? Because I look at what he did with, I look at what he did with interview, right? An interview magazine was really interesting.

1:00:40It still exists, but during his time, it was pairing all these people in conversation, right? But if you look at pin-up, you have all these great conversations with Hansel Rigobrist, interviewing different folks. You have Kenny Shockder, interviewing Zaha Hadid, Francesco Vitzoli, interviewing Ram Coolhoss. I mean, you've kind of done that, but through architecture. Yes.

1:01:08Well, I think it's totally out of pocket that question. Although if it means that in the future, backages of pinup go for millions of dollars at auction, then I'll take it. I doubt that's going to happen. I'll accept the comparison only under the condition or only under the perspective in the sense that any wall for a long time was not taken seriously. And he kind of didn't care so much about being taken seriously. I think he was much more interested in the moment and about the ecosystem of people. I think he was genuinely interested in people and people's stories. Did he like the adjacency to money? Yes, and the art market, but at the same time, I think what was really important to him was having interesting people.

1:02:08around it, and if it was taken seriously or not, I don't think he cared so much. I think he was more interested in finding something new and exciting to do than being canonized in any way. The canonization, of course, I think was then later done by Gallerists and collectors and Bob Colichello. Yeah, Bob. I don't even know if it was him, or in that sense, I think there is an element of that in pinup where I don't know to what I mean, it's nice to be taken seriously, but I don't think it's our primary concern. You definitely don't take yourself to seriously. The magazine doesn't either, and you feel that. Well, I think I'm just not overly interested in being, I mean, once you stick around long enough, you end up being canonized in one way or another or established, let's say not canonized, but established in one way or another, but I think what's much more exciting to me is

1:03:08the newness. I think the surprise, or being able to continue building this ecosystem in ways that are feel exciting or fresh. Yeah. When pinup takes old subjects, the Barbie Dreamhouse and makes them super fresh and interesting again, there's so many beautiful essays and thoughtful pieces of criticism that you've published over the years. Listeners will know this about me. I'm a Naguchi.

1:03:38nut. Gucci nut. Put that in your Instagram bio. And in issue 35, for example, you published this piece by Irish Chen about Assamina Gucci with the very pin up title rock hard. And I wanted to quote from it because it's I just feel like it's hard to say anything new about the work, but she managed to capture this spirit that I think so special. She writes.

1:04:08How do you say something new about Assamu Naguchi? Perhaps with silence. And of his museum in Long Island City, she notes, at night, this pocket of queens becomes one of the stillest places on Earth, the whole place whispers. I just love that. And like this kind of beautiful nuance, poetry almost, is like the kind of stuff you can find when you go digging in the pin-up archive. Wow. Yeah. Thank you.

1:04:37forgot about that story too. I really have kind of media amnesia because I think we're so always focused in the moment that I feel you. I think people who don't produce media don't realize how intense it is the churn. But I love hearing you know like pulling out these quotes. You know B.Joy or probably Minister Oshor or this Irish gen piece on the Gucci. I think that is, well that's exciting.

1:05:07to hear how those can touch upon things that helps people also see even things that may seem part of the cultural inventory in a new way. That makes sense? For sure. And I think even though each issue is very much of its time, there is a timelessness to the work that speaks across time. Let's talk about the power of print in a digital era.

1:05:36Can we talk about Noguchi for a second? Because I went to see The Dallas Show. Sorry, Dallas, what am I talking about? Atlanta. I went to see The Show in Atlanta. Did you see it? It's so good. I loved it. It was so beautiful. And all the listeners get yourself to Atlanta for this summer Noguchi Show. I am not a designer, it's titled. I am not a designer. And it's interesting because we...

1:06:02The week I went to see that, also we were planning an event for Dozy Kano, who is in the issue 40 in the current issue, and maybe think about, you know, how I love artists and practitioners like the Gucci and Dozy, who don't accept to be confined by any one thing. Any one thing, not by a discipline, you know, whether they do a theater set or they do a table or they do an experimental installation or designer fountain you know it's like it's a or a sculpture period or garment you know I think I thought about Dozy when I was in that show because it felt so good to know that there are people practicing today that are not a not confined and be also just do it for the joy of doing it and not a sort of for the gram.

1:07:01Well, let's talk here about the power of print before we finish because I okay in your issue 29 editors letter You you write few formats lend themselves better to reflection at this moment in time safe from surveillance or endless trolling on the eve of the fourth industrial revolution some of the most subversive experiences will not be digitized Wow Did I write that you did what I I agree I mean I think is part of that sort of print renaissance we were talking about that's like there is this sort of return in this kind of new energy I think being put back into what it means to do a print magazine in 2026 which it certainly feels like this retro thing this analog thing this thing it's like it's not anti AI per se but it is in many senses the opposite of what is being spoon fed to us through our

1:07:53devices in our pockets, let's say, and through the social media on those devices. Well, it's anti-algorithm, maybe. I wrote in the editor's letter, you know, when you unpack the issue 40 bucks, you know, you're not being tracked by some algorithm that is monitoring what you're reading and trying to sell you socks or saying, or what you're saying, and trying to sell you more of the same thing.

1:08:22always loved about print and maybe more so even now than when we started is that unlike the consumption of digital media it has a beginning and an end it is a sort of closed experience and whereas digital experience is ultimately wide open field with no beginning and no end you can go in when you want you can leave when you want And there's no boundaries for better or worse. With print, they're very real life constraints, first of all, just from the production side. But also, there's the constraint of only being able to fit X amount of stories in one issue. And I've used this analogy before, and I hope I'm not overusing it. But in that sense, it's like a dinner party, rather than a...

1:09:20then all you can eat buffet all day 24 hour buffet. It is a sit down dinner party and you make very intentional choices who is coming and who is sitting next to who and you know it starts at eight and it's over midnight or whenever you know but there is a beginning and an end and that is such an intimate experience and you also can invite a thousand people to a dinner party I mean I'm sure it's been done but it's probably not a Not as fun. Successful formula. So, you know, there's a certain amount of people also you can invite. And I think that sort of close circuit experience, the intensity of that is what print delivers on, you know, on a media level. And I think that's why it's so satisfying. It's so satisfying to make. And it's hopefully also satisfying to experience, you know, to read.

1:10:17Or actually not rate. You can also just look at it. Ben Gens, who does the design, does himself with every issue. And so you can also just enjoy that part. Yeah, well, I wanted to ask you about that, the sort of architectural aspect of what you do. I mean, do you view each issue of pin up as it's on form of architecture? Only in the sense that I consider it like a closed space.

1:10:50It is, I want to be very clear, I'm not at all a purest that says this is the only valid way to experience media. Most of what we do has some digital life. Some things even have a better digital life than they have a print life. A lot of the mini documentaries that we've done for MoMA or for Cooper Hewitt. A lot of these projects, they rely on digital, so apart from social you know, and obviously all the stories that go on the website. But I think the physical magazine is probably as close as you can get to a spatial experience in print. So in that sense, there's an architecture to it. And it is, I mean, I said it earlier.

1:11:41It is different every time. I sometimes wish it wasn't, but it is different. You'll trim the edges differently. Exactly. You'll be pushing it every time. A sort of ballered like edge. Those are the immediate, the things you immediately notice. But we change the grid, we change the fonts, the finishes, the minutia of design. These are all things that can be standardized. And yet...

1:12:08We don't do it every issue. It's a new beginning. Handsome, handsome. But also, you know, to stick with the dinner analogy, you're not gonna do the same flower arrangements every for every dinner. You're gonna change it up. New guests, new flowers, new plates. New food. I think a great place down this conversation today, which this might seem random, but you'll see where I'm going, is the subject of utopia.

1:12:39In a certain sense, I see pin up magazine as a magazine kind of about utopia. And I know you've explored it here and there over the years. There's one instance I wanted to bring up, which is from the 2023 issue 34 body issue. Yeah, the rapper Travis Scott on the cover and he was doing this sort of like ABC's art direction. The letter U is utopia. And he had this great quote. What are you saying?

1:13:08He said Utopia is something that people feel is so far-fetched and out of reach. Some perfect state of mind, but you create it yourself. There are people who achieve Utopia every day. There may not be the richest people with the dopest cribs, but it's a Utopia wherever they are. And that's the most you can have.

1:13:30I'm trying to show people experiences where utopian things can exist and you can enjoy yourself and have a good time. They can create energy that spews out magical things, new gears, new buildings, new avenues for people to move forward. People need to see that utopia is real. Wow, Travis. I assume this resonates with you. You published it, but it does. I just feel like we live in this world where people hear utopia and they're like, oh, it'll never happen. It's in the far distant future.

1:13:59But I like so much of what you do and pin up because it is about utopia now It is about in a way like this collective of different creative people from a lot of different walks all through this architecture and design lens talking about building a better future in a way and Sometimes looking to the distant past to understand where we are now, but it's there's a there's a fantasticalness to it First of all, I love this quote Thank you for bringing this up. And I think he's right. I think you can try and strive to create utopia every day. But at the same time, I also think that utopia is utopian. So I don't think you'll ever be able to create it. And most of the time, when utopian ideas have been... Right. You know, tried to make an opportunity when awfully wrong. But...

1:15:02But I think you always have to strive for it. And I think, I think pinup does that. I think there is, you know, if the reality of architecture was what looked like pinup, then I'm not even sure we've still had to do this magazine, you know? I think in a way, in the same way that I think, you know, pinup is this sort of heightened utopian expression of who I am. I mean, I sometimes say that pinup is way cooler than I am.

1:15:35But you really, I mean, you choose these stories, I think, because you feel this deep personal connection, right? There's a deep personal connection, and also, you know, I just, I think, you know, to create a space where all these things can coexist and also pollinate each other, speak to each other, and live in exchange of energy or, you know, of ideas. That is a utopian place. And...

1:16:01Is that the reality of always of the world? No. But I think that's what we try to create with every issue. And we'll pin up in general, but like especially with this sort of hyper-specific experience of a print issue. Yeah. A way of looking at the world that's sort of radical, optimistic. There is something very optimistic about pin up yet. So what's next? What do we have on the horizon that you can share? Well, I don't know. I'm not a fortune teller.

1:16:32We have, what can I tell you? What's next? Well, there's always the next issue. You know, there's a, what's the saying before, after the issue is before the issue or no, that's a soccer reference. After the game is before the game, is that, do people say that? Is that a German saying? Maybe. So, we're working on, you know, this is technically spring summer issue. So, we're working on the fall of winter issue.

1:16:59We usually do the fall winter issue as a guest-editor issue. We had Frida last year, before that we had Freddie Fischli and Niels Olsen for the museum issue. For the fall this year, we're exploring the relationship between architecture and fashion. And we're working with Rhonda Tafanian, who is an editor fashion editor, who used to be with System Magazine. She's based in LA. And we're working with her to kind of look at all the different ways these two industries one much better organized than the other is where the connecting points are where you know what's the tension and I thought I thought it was especially interesting after coming back from Milan where you notice so many fashion houses were so keen on getting in on that architecture pie or the design pie let's say there's a

1:17:58inherent tension there, but there's also so much, so many connecting points between the two. And so we're working on that issue for the fall, which I'm very excited about. I really love collaborating. So I love bringing on these guest editors to bring their vision and then see how that works with how we are structured and Either they bring a lot of new people on board with photographers or writers, or we help them pair, you know, they have more abstract ideas. I mean, Reyna is an editor, so she knows what she's doing. But, you know, with some of the people who worked with before, it's they're not in the habit of commissioning writers or photographers. So it was, you know, with Frida, it was super exciting to think together with her what, you know, who makes sense, who was she fascinated with.

1:18:50So, that's our fall issue. So, that already know that's happening. I can also tell you that we are launching... We have a little sister company called Pinup Home. It's our little laboratory for home accessories. Usually, twice a year, once a twice a year, we work with designers to come up with a new product that we...

1:19:16I can't even tell you how they come about. They just kind of like, you know, we've done this amazing soap with Shane Oliver, then we did a sofa with Decida, then we did a lamp with growl, we did candle holders with Vincent Reich, this Dutch artist, resin artist, and now for this summer, we work with Betossi, the ceramic company, to create this collection of vases designed by Bernard Dubois.

1:19:45the Belgian architect. Shout out to Scydon Seen, actually, our friends from Scydon Seen, because these vases, we actually showed the first time 10 years ago as one-offs, sort of an experimental project, a Scydon Seen. I think they had a fair call off-site. We showed them there for the first time, and then when we were thinking about a new product, you know, we were looking at some of the projects we had done, and we were like, oh, let's see if we can bring these back. And then Bernard went back to the drawing board and completely changed the project. The typology is more or less the same, but they couldn't be further apart from the original design. I'm very excited about those coming out during three days of design in Copenhagen, which by the time this airs, I think, will have already happened. Go to pinuphome.com and get your vase. Final question now. Imagine we're 20 years from now.

1:20:41Oh my god. Are you crazy? Imagine we're 20 years. Imagine we're 20 years from now. Where do you hope pin up is, or what sort of legacy do you hope pin up has established and has put into the world at that point? 20 years, Spencer is insane. Bailey, think about what I'm doing tomorrow. First of all, I hope it will still be around, whether I'm Involved or not. I don't know if I'm alive in 20 years. Hopefully it will be around and it will continue to kind of broaden its world. That compare the kind of stories we did and the kind of ecosystem we operated in. Also media landscape we've operated in in 2006, 7, 8, 9, you know, for compared to today. I mean, you know, we've done, we work slow but we've at the same time it's a huge leap.

1:21:54On the surface, we're still doing a banjo, print magazine, but it couldn't be more, you know, the cultural environment couldn't be more different. And yet, can a place a role in that environment and hopefully one that is inspiring or entertaining? There you go. Little radical, little renegade. A little radical, exactly, a little bit. And hopefully fun.

1:22:23And I hope that in 20 years time, whatever it is, whether it's still print or, you know, whatever shape it will make, it'll take. I hope it will carry all those values forward. I really don't know. 20 years, Spencer. Come on now. All right. 20 seconds now. Okay. Well, I mean, what about, let's see. Well, since you brought up Andy Wahl, what he, so when he died? So in 65, do you think he would have?

1:22:53No one that he was gonna be on the love boat in the mid 80s So you know, I don't know what whatever happens happens, you know you had else any wall hole in 1965 where do you see yourself in 20 years? I don't think he would have said I'm gonna be on the love boat so 2046 2046 find me on the on the love boat or whatever the equivalent of that is Thanks Felix is great. Thank you. Thank you so much. This was fun

1:23:26Extra thanks to our season 13 presenting partner, Nicole, School of Jewelry Arts, which is supported by the Maison Van Cleef and our Pels. A unique place for learning online and offline. Nicole welcomes the general public to the world of jewelry through courses, talks, exhibitions, videos, books, and its voice of jewels podcast. You can find out more about Nicole at LeCole Van Cleef, our Pels.com. That's Ellie, COLE, V-A-N-C-L-E-E-F.

1:23:55And thank you for listening. You can find more episodes of Time Sensitive on our website, TimeSensitive.fm, or wherever you listen to podcasts. To keep up with our latest Time Sensitive episodes and get behind the scenes updates, sign up for our newsletter at slowdown.media slash newsletter. That's slowdown.media slash newsletter. You can follow us on Instagram at slowdown.media.

1:24:24Our theme music was composed by Billy Martin. This episode was produced by Ramon Brosa, Olivia Almer, Mimi Hammond, Colin Lee, and Johnny Simon.