Women at Work - What’s Changed About How We Show Up at Work

0:02You're listening to Women at Work from Harvard Business Review. I'm Emily Caulfield. I'm Amy Bernstein. And I'm Amy Gallo. The pandemic turned people inside out. Working from home put much more of our personal lives on display. Stress and grief became too much to hold in. Getting our act together took too much energy. The world has changed a lot and our notion of what's professional and what's not have changed along with it.

0:31What do these shifts mean for how we show up in our appearance and emotionally? Are we allowed or expected to show more of our real selves at work? And how can we navigate these shifting expectations in a way that benefits us or at least doesn't harm our careers? We invited Tina Opie to discuss all of this with us. She's an expert in strategic management and organizational behavior. Tina's been a regular guest on the show since season one.

1:00when she talked about the fundamentals and nuances of leading with authenticity. Her academic research has centered on how workplaces accept or reject individual differences, and she advises companies on how they can promote authenticity. Authenticity is defined as when your external expression is aligned with your internal experience. People actually feel better about themselves when they are authentic. There are all kinds of implications for your well-being.

1:29work engagement, productivity. Tina, we have just come through the most remarkable couple of years, and I'm wondering how that has changed the way you think about authenticity and authenticity at work. You know, people are calling this the great resignation, and what I've said is...

1:54it's more like the I have looked around this workplace organization I don't feel respected and taken care of and I don't know if I want to put up with this anymore kind of Ignatian. And so people are recognizing that the cost of even something like commuting is higher than they may have anticipated the cost of being in the office. So this is a great reckoning. It's an opportunity for individuals to really assess what matters to you.

2:25What's most important to you? Why are you working? Why are you commuting 30 minutes to work or sitting in traffic? Why are you dropping your children off at 6.30 so that you can make the 7.15 train and then having to come back, you know, sometimes exhausted and then have a second part of your day with your family where you feel depleted, low energy, etc, etc. Why are you doing that? Why do organizations typically want employees to be in the workplace physically?

2:54And I'm not suggesting that we change everything. What I'm suggesting is that we interrogate why we do what we do. That we ask ourselves, is it necessarily true that in order to have the most productive, well-engaged employees, they need to be physically present in the workplace? For me, I know the answer is no. I feel as though I've developed this beautiful home office environment. You can see in the back, I have African art and black art around me. I'm happy. I look around, I see myself. I can filter what kind of input I get from other people. And that has led me to be more fulfilled. I'm able to express my authentic self. So Tina, do you think that this greater awareness around racism and like with the whole Black Lives Matter movement and everything that's transpired over the last year and a half,

3:48Has this translated into black employees being able to be more authentic in the workplace? Well, I would love to say yes, you know emphatically yes across the board Black employees at all organizations at all times and we're able to be authentic because of what's just happened Yeah, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice if we think that Awareness leads to behavior change. I think awareness is a necessary ingredient but it is not always sufficient to facilitate behavior change. And that for me is what I'm seeing on a large scale, because when you look at the survey results, black people do not want to go back to work. Now, perhaps if they go back, they'll have a more positive experience and that will change them, but history does not suggest that that will be the case. Yeah, your point just reminded me of this Slack survey that was conducted at the beginning of this year, and 97% of black knowledge workers wanted the future of

4:47their jobs to be either remote or hybrid. Why do you think that is? Why do you think black employees don't want to return to the office? When black people go to work, if you experience what some call a microaggression, which is really, it's just racism and racial trauma and people are taking credit for your ideas, people are talking over you. People tell you that you are not professional enough or that you need to modulate your tone or that you come across as angry when all you're doing is advocating for yourself or for someone else. Why would I want to leave my warm cozy house where I can eat what I want when I want? I can work out if I want to. If I have a meeting cool, I can be professional up top and cozy down bottom. I don't have to commute. My children are in the next room.

5:34But I want to emphasize there are plenty of white people who don't want to go back to work. There are plenty of women who don't want to go back to work. So black people are often the canary in the coal mine, but there's something going on in the coal mine for everyone. I wonder, Tina, if the whole idea of what constitutes professional comportment has changed, research takes time to catch up. You have a very discerning eye. Are you seeing anything new, anything shifting? I am.

6:04What we experienced was a huge increase in informality in terms of the way that we presented ourselves, but also a blurring of the line sometimes between professional and personal. I do want to emphasize though that that wasn't the case for everyone. While many people were feeling that there was a blurring of lines between professional and personal, which I do think has happened. People were divulging and sharing more information. We have to recognize that it's still curated. I don't want us to feel as though this is just me. I mean, I designed my office with a certain aesthetic in mind because I knew that it would be on camera. And so we may think that we're getting this blurring of lines between professional and personal, but it's curated personal, if that makes sense for most people. Or they'll put on the Zoom background because they don't want you seeing

7:00into their home for whatever reason. We're still making choices about what we show and present, even if those choices are different and require a different level of exposure. Yes, and I just want us to be sensitive that we still provide people with choice. You cannot force someone to show you themselves 100% of the time, all the time when you're on camera. I think we have to be sensitive to that.

7:28That's one of the things I've been thinking about a lot because I think specifically on the team I work with at HBR. I think we have shown up more Emotional I should say there's more discussion around how we feel what's going on in our family life that various crises that people are going through and I actually worry that it's applying Pressure to people who don't feel comfortable Sharing those things and I've seen that translate to the office where we we are talking more about mental health all of these these issues It does sort of feel like being professional now also means being emotional We've lauded leaders who have been emotional and cried and and shared and my sense and this is again very anecdotal But my sense is that we're starting to correlate professionalism with emotional expression

8:18and emotional expression with authenticity. That's right. That's an excellent point, Amy V, because right, is that emotional expression always authentic? No, I mean, well, so, you know. Oh my God, I'm so happy you said that. We have to be very careful. When we come up with these isms, these true isms, the best leaders are going to be emotionally authentic. There are different prices paid for emotional expression. There are stereotypes that will come into play when someone demonstrates emotion. It might be that we're expected to make ourselves vulnerable and maybe cry out of concern for someone else, but not for ourselves. If you go in there and you say, I'm really upset that I'm being underpaid and you cry, that's not, I still don't think that's going to be perceived positively. It is a level of emotion where you're expected to demonstrate that you care about other people.

9:13And you may even be angry about what's happening to other people, but don't be angry about what's happening to you or your identity group at your workplace. That is still not acceptable, I don't think. Well, actually, the distinction also could be made that you can be angry or sad about things happening outside work, but you can't really be angry or sad about the workplace issues that may be actually causing a lot of the emotion.

9:38That's a great point, Amy. Gee, and I think that connects to this idea of do I actually predict real change? No. I mean, in some instances, yes, but I think unless and until we allow employees to express their actual emotional state and what I'm I don't necessarily know the best avenue to do that because I do recognize that there are consequences that are heavier for some than for others.

10:07But I don't think leaders, I mean, leaders are trying to force people to go back to work when they don't want to. I mean, they've been clear about that. The employees have been relatively clear, but some organizations are still trying to force employees to go back to work, and they're trying to sell them this notion that it's good for them. So they're not even listening to that. That's not even a motion. That's like a task. I just don't want to commute. And now we're saying we think that organizational leaders are going to listen to people talk about how excluded they feel at work. I don't think that organizational leaders are prepared for a certain kind of sharing. They want sharing that is curated. There's very little variance. And I would say for me personally, going back into the workplace, I am a little bit worried about being authentic because I feel like I'm in a more raw place.

11:01than before. So right now, when everybody wants authenticity, I am shying away from it. Because if I were to have that external expression be equivalent to my internal expression, it would be a damn mess. I think that is an amazing point, Emily. It feels like you're saying the average emotional state that you're in has become more negative sort of. Yes, this last year and a half. Yes. So the mean has shifted.

11:30which means that if you're authentic at work, it may have more negative implications. You're more likely to... The consequences. Because you're more likely to express negative emotion. And as a result, you may have more negative consequences, which connects to the earlier point in terms of, while we may wish that empathy and emotional expression was readily accepted in organizations, it's often probably a positive...

11:56emotional expression or if it's sadness or anger, it's about something that's happening outside of the organization, not something specifically relevant to the workplace. Yeah. Well, and even going back to Tina's definition of like when your external expression is aligned with your internal expression, like if you did that, is that okay? You know? No. Yeah, but I'm just sorry that you're experiencing that. I'm also experiencing that. Yeah.

12:25And I'm sure it's not just me out there. So Tina, what is a way that we can strategically people who are feeling like me or you show up to work and feel authentic, but not suffer bad consequences by telling our coworkers and our bosses about how we're feeling? Yeah, I don't think you can. Remember that work is not your only life domain. So for me, when work has been very difficult, I'm very involved in my church. I'm very involved in my neighborhood. I'm committed to my family, my nuclear family, my extended family. I just got a Peloton. So what I'm saying is there can be multiple, there are multiple domains in all of our lives. And I have learned work is not therapy. It's not a therapy. So I'm not going to look to people who I work with to work out internal emotional issues. I view work as a place where I want to be able to be emotionally authentic.

13:22But that's not the place to work out my emotions, if that makes sense. Yeah. I work out my emotions at home with my family, with a professional therapist. And then it may be that when I go to work, someone asks, well, how's everyone doing? And it's the morning after some verdict has come out and I may break into tears. I feel authentic enough to say this is just too fresh. I'm clearly not doing great. And I would like to take a break.

13:53That could potentially have negative consequences because some people will say I just don't know if she has the backbone to get this done That's not an unrealistic outcome. I think we have to be very Honest about that especially for women because that is stereotype congruent behavior However, I have trusted advisors at work and we may go off campus or go off site and we may crack together. So there are people at work that I can do that, but I don't rely on the workplace to work through my emotions. That would be the biggest piece of advice that I would give. Once you are at work, I think trying to see if there are other people who are experiencing similar emotions as you, so that it can be a collective voice rather than an individual voice, so that instead of

14:46it being your voice only, there is a collective that's saying, listen, this is how we're feeling in here is how we would like our organization to respond to support us. Tina, let me ask you a different sort of question. I spent 20 months in flip-flops or slippers, jeans, below the WebEx frame, the Zoom frame. I look like I'm ready for summer camp. So going back to the office as Amy, Emily, and I have had to, you know, we returned about a month ago. And I have noticed, well, first of all, I've struggled to figure out what in the world I'm going to wear, even though I have three quarters of a closet that has sat untouched for 20 months. And I noticed some colleagues who used to be quite formally attired in jeans. This goes back to professional comportment.

15:41Are you seeing a shift in these expectations, both employers of employees, but employees of themselves? So I have not seen empirical research on this. So this is anecdotal. This is based on clients and my personal experience and my friendship circle on my network. Yes. None of us want to go back to formal suits. I mean, first of all, I was in a sorority meeting and somebody was joking about how, listen, Holidays are coming up. You may have to wear some special outfit suits Just note to advice to you based on personal experience try those suckers on before the event Because You know pandemic quarantine wait is no joke and I'm not talking about I'm there's I have don't have a bias. I'm a larger woman I don't have bias against larger people what I'm talking about is you may be larger than you were at the beginning of the pandemic and so it's important to

16:39to try those things out. And I do think, I know I've been like, well, if it doesn't fit, I'm not replacing it. I'm just, you know, I'm going to get more cozy, stretchy kinds of pants that are forgiving. I love a tunic. I will wear a jacket and a bold piece of jewelry usually. And that is how I get quote, dressed up. I have a basic canvas on the bottom.

17:04usually a black skirt or black top and then some kind of jacket. But the skirt and the top are now made from cotton. They're not gonna be made from some constricting material because I need to breathe. I will say people think that I'm more formally dressed than I actually am and that is just my MO. Other people may have on jeans. I may have on jeans but I'm gonna have on some pearls and a blazer. And that is just because it's habit, it's style.

17:32I was raised by two people who are just really amazing, polished, professional people. But I'm also offsetting the negative stereotypes about black people in the workplace that we're not competent and against black women that we're not competent. And so I make sure that I'm always, I would not go in a sweatshirt. That's just not happening. Me sitting here in a sweatshirt. Oh, sorry. No, because I feel like dress has been always something that I haven't felt uncomfortable challenging in the right workplaces. If I see somebody else wearing jeans, I'm like, great, now I have the okay to wear jeans and I will be wearing jeans whenever I can or wear comfortable clothing just because I'm so over feeling uncomfortable in my clothes, which I did for a long time. But I do realize that my appearance, which is generally more casual, could make me appear less competent to people because I choose

18:31Hiking boots and jeans and a beanie see I think you just have to refine your own style Because I am dead. I mean I wear big jewelry know that necklace is amazing and it has become part of my brand where it's it's distinctive jewelry people short hair like the gray hair a bold lip usually and I've refined that and so there may be some people who think that it is unprofessional because I have on a leather and suede jacket as opposed to you know, a particular style of blazer. You just have to find what's comfortable for you, Emily. I mean, and- And for your workplace? Yeah, I was gonna say and recognize what the boundaries are in your workplace. And you have to decide what I like to tell people is you can violate whatever boundary you want to, but please know them first. Don't unintentionally violate the boundaries. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if people in the audience remember when women were required to wear, not required to wear, it was informal, expected to wear pantyhose.

19:30I was so happy when that norm fell by the wayside. Yeah. That's how I feel about heels right now. Yeah, I'm not doing it. I was packing for the first work trip I took in a long time and I was putting in my usual things and heels had always been part of that. And I was like, oh, I should try these on because I haven't had them on in 18 months. And I put them on, I was like, oh, no, there is no way. They're just so uncomfortable. What I'm having trouble figuring out Is my concept of what's required of me changed? Or is just my tolerance level so much lower around the discomfort I'm willing to experience? I think it's both. Mm-hmm. I really don't wear high heels anymore. I mean, I may wear a platform shoe occasionally. But for the most part, I don't. And when I put my old heels on, it feels like I'm like have my ligaments and tendons expanded because this is super... That's exactly it. Uncomfortable. Yeah. And there are...

20:28loads of adorable flats. And then when you go into work, I think more people have that mindset around them. And so it's like there's this mutually reinforcing cycle. They're not as comfortable the workplace because everyone's not even going back to work. People who do go back to work may have a disproportionate influence on the cultural norms that are being established now. And then they don't want to wear the shoes. So you see what I'm saying? It becomes this mutually reinforcing cycle. But that's how cultures can change.

20:58Yeah. Well, and it's funny because to your point earlier, no one ever said this is what you have to do. It was what other people were doing. It was what happened when you didn't conform to that, how people reacted. But I feel like people are talking more about wanting to be casual and talking more about not wanting to wear makeup and talking more about like, I'm going to wear jeans every day. And because there's that verbal, that really outward expression of I'm going to be more comfortable because I've been so comfortable at home, it makes it easier to make those decisions every day and not stress out about them as much. So Tina, in the previous episode on authenticity, you basically lamented that we live in a world where impressions matter, where appearance is highly connected to impressions. And so you've dedicated your research

21:47and your teaching to help get closer to a world where that's not necessarily the case. And I'm wondering if you think that society is moving in that direction, or if we're getting closer to that. I hope so. I'm optimistic that there will be more people like you all at organizations who are asking these kinds of questions and who are taking it beyond this podcast, but going back to the workplace and examining the norms and guidelines that you have. As we're seeing a rise in sort of people not wanting to go back to work, there's also I think a rise in entrepreneurship, which is interesting to me. I think there's a relationship there. I am hopeful that organizational leaders will use this as an opportunity to explore what their employees are asking for so that we can create more inclusive organizations where appearance norms

22:38don't have the negative consequences that they may have right now. And I think employees in some instances are fed up and not necessarily going to comply in the same way that they have in the past. Especially now that employees have the power. Absolutely. Some of us may feel threatened by this, but this is a great opportunity for organizations. Organizations that will end up with competitive advantages will be those organizations who say, okay, authenticity is important to employees. We've talked about why. Well-being, productivity, work engagement. So let's start looking at how our organization supports authentic expression in the workplace. How are we hiring people? Oh, we asked a question about this person being, you know, having an accent.

23:33Is that necessary? Do we need to go that way? We talked about this person and we said they need to be more pulled together and polished. Let's unpack that. What do we mean by that? Then they may actually look at the leadership prototype at the organization. So are all of the leaders tall with charismatic extroverted personalities? Does that have any influence on how more introverted people may be responding as everybody sort of performing?

24:03in this prototypical way so that they can have a higher likelihood of being promoted. Really asking those questions though and rather than being threatened by them look at it as an opportunity to get a leg up and to do honestly what I think is the right thing by the employees where you are really trying to create cultures where employees have better well-being.

24:29They have stronger engagement. They're more productive. That actually benefits the organization. It benefits the organization and the people who work there. Yeah. Tina, it is always so good to see you and hear you. Thanks again for joining us. Thank you for having me. That's our show. I'm Emily Caulfield. I'm Amy Gallo. And I'm Amy Bernstein. Our editorial and production team is Amanda Cursey, Maureen Hoek, Rob Eckhart, Erica Truxler, Tina Toby Mack and Alaini Mata. Robin Moore composed this theme music. Email us at women at work at hbr.org and subscribe to our newsletter by going to hbr.org slash newsletters. Thanks for listening.